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Episode 9


Welcome back to episode nine of the Muddy River Tactical podcast As always I’m your host Kyle Mason, joined by Brett Davis and Kevin Mason. We are gonna talk about some pretty cool stuff today on previous episodes we’ve talked about the nine millimeter how it used to be a staple then it lost popularity to the forty and now it’s back in favor. So we did some research. We’re gonna talk about the history of that and how that came about. Talk about some other stuff that’s going on in the outdoors world right now a couple big stories in the news. Talk a little bit about our leather inside the waistband holsters and just kinda go from there. 


So kinda getting into it first off did anybody have anything awesome happen this weekend? Anything you know unusual? Did you get any more bees any zoopoo any any fun stuff like that? I did have to move a chicken coop. How do you move a chicken coop? Well he bought a chicken coop. My my wife bought a chicken coop and I had to move a chicken coop. So she’s got the chickens, but now she wants these silky fancy chickens. Yeah They have fur instead of feathers I guess I don’t know. But they’re little. For the rats. Yeah They’re little wobbling around chickens, but they’ll get killed in the regular coop. Does that make them better for eating or worse for with fur? We’re not even eating them. It’s the bad part. They put out different colored eggs. But all of the eggs eat the same so I don’t know. So you got pre made Easter eggs basically with still heat chicken. Pretty much. So we had to go get a chicken coop to house just those so that they don’t get killed by the other chickens. So you have two chicken coops? Two chicken coops. So you gotta scoop twice amount of litter? The first one’s a chicken palace. Yeah It’s not really a coupe. The other one’s like a shed with like run on it.


How many snakes does she found in the cube yet? Surprisingly at our house, I’ve found one snake in the garage and that’s it. Really I figured that thing would be full of black except they’re eating the eggs and everything he’s pretty far away from woods. Not that. Not yet anyways. But what was funny is we picked this thing up in Lees Summit. Me and Julie went out there and then there’s the people we bought it from and they had somebody else help it. So it took like five of us to get it on the trailer. Anyways we’re going through this gas station at Lee Summit before we head back fifty miles an hour so that the wind doesn’t catch the chicken coop that stands eight foot tall up the trailer. But there’s a guy, like probably our age or something with a kid walking and they keep turning around looking at the chicken coop and pointing at it I told Julie I’m like you know what discussion they’re having right now? He’s telling me his kid never to get married because this is what you end up doing on your Saturdays is hauling chicken coops. Like Brett said on a previous episode when she asked what are we doing? You always have something. Like you got truck made you better have something in the chamber ready to go when she asked you that question. So Brett got to help move it off the trailer yesterday.


So she didn’t just pick it up with the skid steer? No This wasn’t a small chicken coop. No let’s be honest. Yeah. It’s not small. It’s not It’s two story. It’s pretty big. We’ve got running water and everything in it It’s pretty close. It’s got extra windows, satellite TV which we made fun of like actual glass windows it’s got. Yeah. So you’ve got the busiest chickens and plaque down here is what you’re telling me? Yeah And they don’t even have feathers They got fur or something and they have no fear of getting eaten by anything other than coyote. Somebody probably sold their laps and call them chickens silky. We need to get like a baby turkey and put it in there. We got plenty of turkey around the farm that we need to start working on.



What about you Brett did you do anything cool or no? Wife and kids left town. Pretty quiet. You got to do your maintenance job? Yeah I got to practice maintenance. Maintenance finally showed up at my house after six months. Yeah I got the joy of doing taxes this weekend and surprisingly, the amount of taxes I owe versus the increase that I had in pay last year was about two to one So instead of doing TurboTax take it to somebody and let them mess with itb because it’s like how did I make marginally more but oh almost double in taxes? So I don’t know whether tax codes changed. Welcome to that next tax bracket. Well I think that means he needs to make a little less money on down. I do or like get paid cash or you know getting only fans or something to make way more money. Oh only fans. Hey feet pictures sell really well. Yeah I don’t think your feet pictures are gonna sell well. There there’s a market for everything. If you want like a gouty toe with some gangrene it I don’t wanna meet that demographic that you’re selling your feet pictures to. Well that’s a good thing. Only fans you never have to meet them. It’s kinda like the podcast you know? So, alright yeah. So I did taxes. Boys had football. A little bit of that and a bunch of nothing. It ended up raining a little bit so we didn’t get a good cove to do anything outside too much fun.


But I’m talk about there’s story going around all over. We were talking about shed hunting on here the other day. And specifically you know I carried my, my pistol on my pack while I’m shed hunting and a lot of people have asked me why do you carry it all the time and just being out in the woods, I always carry one with me. You never know what you’re gonna come across. There’s a couple kids in California, brothers they were eighteen and twenty one. And they were out looking for deer sheds and they got attacked by a mountain lion. And the mountain lion killed the twenty one year old and the eighteen year old survive but he’s got multiple surgeries and facial injuries. So they come to he gets away calls the sheriffs and they go up and find you know the scene and the cat is still with the body and ended up euthanizing the cat and I guess it was a ninety pound mountain lion. And from what I’ve always heard it’s like typically like the juvenile catch for lack of a better term to kind of out trying to find their range and all that but I figured on that when I heard the story about it I figured it would be like they walked up on cubs or something.


Now this was a this was a male ninety pound cat. So I guess they get the average between seventy and a hundred and seventy pounds. So it on the smaller end so leads me to believe it might have been a juvenile. They’re twenty five to thirty inches tall at the shoulder so they’re bigger. A ninety pound cat ain’t no small damn cat though. Oh yeah. That’s because yeah they’re not built like bigger than my German. Like the big bobcats around here that are big are thirty five pounds and that’s a really big bobcat. Well and they’re saying that’s like six to eight feet long with the tail. So yeah that’s a monster. But anyway statistically they say you’re a thousand times more likely to be struck by lightning than you already get attacked by a mountain lion but that goes back to the shark and you know kind of some of the other stuff we talked about.


But it just really kinda puts emphasis on what we talk about all the time about being prepared and you know why carry a firearm with you if you’re able to when you’re out in the woods. And I think that’s why like over the weekend especially and who knows what starts it or whatever, I got more emails this weekend about the ten millimeter guns. The sig X ten was one of them that people now that they made the compact version of it I got like six emails on that gun and wanting it with lights and stuff, but like people and not just I mean, mountain lions are one thing but bear country and all that other stuff that we don’t really deal with around where we’re at but it seems like that pistols becoming popular for that type of hiking, guys elk hunting stuff like that out in. And I wonder if it’s more seasonal too because like you’re talking about that’s all mountain stuff. So the snow’s starting to get ready to melt in some spots and people are gonna be out on those mountain trails. And you look like the fly fishing I know a bunch of people go up to the boundary waters and I know the bears may not be as bad up there but there’s lots of places where the bears are super bad.


I have a cousin speaking of literally texting me right now about going to Montana and he was asking me the rules of flying with a pistol. There may be something that we look into in the future. Yeah Absolutely I know there’s they’ve been popping up all over. They make these safes and they’re TSA approved and gonna try and reach out to them because they have a pretty cool new safe out. So I don’t wanna talk too much about it yet but yeah I’ll definitely research that figure out what people need to do. I know it’s not as hard as it looks like I know. No It’s just time consuming and it’s where you’re flying to and that’s in knowing the rules of and you may have a layover flight if you’re staying overnight. If you’re going across into Canada. Like that’s a whole different thing too than if you’re just staying stateside.


So, real quick on the other stuff kinda in the news. There’s a recall on the Smith and Wesson  9 mm. That’s what would you call it .Not AR platform but it is an AR air platform. Yeah So it’s an AR nine millimeter carbine is what it is it’s mostly polymer. Fairly new maybe six months old something like that roughly. We got a letter in the mail that basically the round can fire out of battery. So that means it’s not locked in place. What that can cause is obviously a mini explosion. Catastrophic failure barrel explosion. And aren’t those lowers polymer on this? Yeah. Majority of the gun is polymer other than the chamber stuff like that. The bolt is not polymer obviously. But they basically reached out to us at the gun sho was the list of all the customers that’d bought them so they could reach out to him because it’s a pretty serious recall. And if people don’t get reached out to I’m sure they can contact Smith and Wesson and through their website. I’ve already reached out to everybody that I had contact info just to let them know but it’s gonna shop has in. It’s definitely a good thing because like the local people but the people not local to us that didn’t buy them from us definitely call and find out what they do. They do have a way to tell if your gun has been fixed repaired or not. Beside the nine millimeter caliber stamped on the bolt. They’re putting a line on each side of the nine millimeter. If it has the lines on the bolt then you’re good to go.


Okay Yeah And I was just thinking about people that may buy it at one shop and have it transferred here Is that it’s probably the original purchase point that would be contacting? No It’s really, yes and no but they reached out to us to go through my whole books. Okay. They’re not taken. It’s a serious enough problem that they want all guns that were transferred bought whatever may be the case because if it gets transferred it’s in our books the same. We can still look it up. Now is there is there a list of like a better terms where people may have a gun they’re questioned about where you can go online and see what guns have been recalled or sounds like any of them that are out right now. Yeah Any of the response it’s actually said that was manufactured before February twenty fourth. So it’s February twenty fourth of twenty four So it’s pretty almost all of them. So it’s a really new recall and safety recall. K So definitely important if you got one of those I would avoid firing it personally until you can get it checked out make sure everything’s good with it because you know that explosion right by your face would be horrible. Or the other thing is to think about too is there’s some people that don’t wanna jack sending guns back and forth you find a quote unquote great deal on one somewhere, it may be because they don’t wanna jack with it. Yeah. Makes sense.


Alright so last couple episodes we have talked about are inside the waistband or outside the waistband options. We talked about leather holsters briefly on both of them. Not that this isn’t as important but it there’s not as in-depth conversation we had but we’ve got a few examples here. Kevin’s got one of them over there in front of him. So for the people, you know who may not know about our leather holster and what makes ours different. Can you kinda just give them the ten thousand foot overview? Yeah So the main part of the soft leather holsters are for comfort. You take all other arguments aside if you do not have your gun with you when something arises, it does use zero good. So this is really what I would consider an entry level holster for those people that aren’t used to inside the waistband holsters because like we talked about it’s a transition getting used to something in your pants no matter how big or small the gun is. So this leather being softer and it molds to your body and to the gun, it makes it as comfortable as inside the waistband holsters are gonna get. So it doesn’t have the click in retention of Kydex and some of those other perks but it’s also half the price. You know it’s a budget level and entry level holster at the same time.


The other market that we see this a lot for is just for everyday carry stuff. There’s guys that carry and find themselves not carrying all the time just in certain situations. Because they’re like oh it’s not comfortable or digging into them. We sell a lot of these to those people that they may not carry it all the time. But when they’re wearing something or comfort matters more to them on that situation, they go to this. That makes a lot of sense. And there’s not so in kydex sculptures each one’s made specifically to the gun. In the leather, there’s what five four five eight different sizes. There’s like eight different ones and what it really comes down to is it’s stitched to different frames. If you look at concealed carry guns in general or just pistols in general, you can put a hundred of them together and the frames are so close in size. So the way these molds are just based off of those sizes. So it it’s really more of a molding to your gun than a molded from the get go.


Now when they get that leather holster, this is a question I hear all the time but how long does it take for that it’s kind of like a baseball glove? When you get a new baseball glove you put the baseball in it and you wrap rubber bands around it?  I’m not saying bake these holsters but you condition the leather to fit the baseball is it the same on a leather holster? Yeah So on this water natural water buffalo leather it’s got natural oils in it which is why it feels soft and has that soft texture to it. So you do not really need to put like leather conditioner and all that stuff on it. You just wear it and it will mold roughly one to two weeks. It will start but they’re one of those holsters that the longer you have it the better they get. And people always ask all the time like what’s the best way to break one in? Well when you get it in the in the mail or get it from the store, push your thumb on the back of the slide and firmly push the pistol all the way into the holster because they will be tight for a minute. Let it sit like that overnight or for twenty four hours and then start wearing it and then it will break in that way. Now if they leave it in the holster all the time that’s just naturally gonna make it fit better as it adapts to it over time. And the leather like anything it stretches to a certain point and then it doesn’t as much but it still will stretch.


So I mean this holster is not a holster that’s gonna last ten years. You know if you sweat on it every day and stuff it’s gonna keep stretching. So our warranty and stuff covers all the normal wear and tear stuff but if you have an eight year old holster that’s thirty five dollars it doesn’t cover the stretchy you know. Well and really in for thirty five bucks in eight years you were in at five bucks a year.  Well and it’s gonna be from you sweating on it and everything. It’s gonna have so much bacteria and nastiness to it anyways well and you’re probably better off with another one. And for most people you know and especially our customers are great. If they’ve worn it for eight years that means they loved it. If you wear it and they have no problem buying another one. Yeah They probably got two or three others for different size.


A couple questions that I get a lot of times in the gun shop. And for you Kevin is and I know the answer but I want you to kinda explain why lights and lasers on leather. So what happens on a light earlier. Give me that light bearing. So if you can look like this is a light bearing kydex holster, so it comes down all this is the gun in the light. If you did that in leather, if you imagine the same thing in leather and went over it’d be like a pouch. Big rectangle is what it would be it wouldn’t it doesn’t work anywhere near the same. There’s no trigger for it to stop. Like here it stops. With that what it would have to be sewn shut on the bottom to stop, which then dirt lint debris everything gets stuck in the bottom which you don’t want. They just don’t work well at all that way so we just won’t make them. And all of ours are hand specific so right handed, left handed and they have sweat shields on them which are a pretty universal size and height.


And this next question is red dots. Yeah So they’re all optic ready now. So in the past we had them where it was optic or not but what we found is so many people were calling wanting to send it back to get optic cut because like we talked about on other episodes optics are the new craze and everything I mean everything’s going to optic or at least compatible for optics. And from an engineering standpoint that optic cut brings it down an inch which on leather or kydex is not gonna affect it’s not gonna make your pistol rock or not. They’re gonna fit the same. It doesn’t hurt anything for us. It allows us to keep the price cheaper. Cause our main goal with these is to keep the price low. Leather keeps going more expensive and more expensive. So for us these are thirty nine dollars now. And even at that they need to go up but we’re just trying to use it as a budget thing. Which is pretty good because you were what thirty five dollars. They’ve always been thirty five forever and the leather’s gone up triple since then. So every year we make less money off of these But we never wanna stop selling them because it gives people that comfort level. And kind of talking about other things that we talk about. You could go with the cheaper kind of leather but we with the water buffalo hide because that’s the best. If you go cheaper you can go to like suede and stuff like that but there’s a reason it’s softer. It’s gonna wear out faster. There’s a reason and even those holsters are forty dollars now. So if that gives you a comparison if you look at like, any of those suede holsters that are synthetic material. They’re not gonna feel soft. They’re not gonna last. They’re the same price so that gives you an idea of how little margin we have in these.


This is we kinda talked about the gun shop as being a local service to people. This is the holster equivalent of being a service and not a profitable item. So much better than the nylon. Absolutely. Now as far as the clips that are on there I see the standard metal clip. Right now we don’t have options to change those or not on the soft leather. So there’s a soft leather which is what this is and then I didn’t bring a tuckable leather. The tuckable leather has the same cuts same everything. It is the same leather but it’s full grain. So if you this is four or five ounce leather, so it’s split. A machine splits this leather down to that thickness. Okay Whereas the tuckable leathers are eleven to twelve ounce full grain so they’re not split at all. So this piece comes out of a full grain version. And can make two of these holsters compared to one of the tuckables. So with that said the tuckables are a not a budget level. They’re if you’re gonna carry every day long term and not just use it as a in between holster. You’ll wanna go to the tuckable leather for multitude of reasons but it’s got thicker leather so it’s gonna hold up better over time. Be more secure but it’s also got a better belt clip on it that you can switch from a tuckable clip or an ulti clip.


So the metal clip on the soft leather, it’s great for normal and this is also where the entry level comes in. If you have a gun belt or something, you’re normally not the entry level guy. If you got a Walmart belt or normal belt, this is the clip that will work for it. That’s why we leave this clip on there. Whereas the tuckable clip goes to gun belt stuff like that as you progress down the line and get farther in your concealed carry journey. That makes a lot of sense.


Actually another and I should have brought one and maybe we can. Well we will bring it in on another episode but we have a comfort carry holster also which is a Kydex shell mounted to a leather backer. It it’s a very specific holster It’s a not an entry level holster. It’s something for somebody that’s carried for a while knows what position they wanna carry, because it’s good for four or five o’clock and that’s it right behind the hip Hit right behind the hip and that’s all. It is more bulky because of the leather piece But it’s more secure because of the two clips. And it’s got a really wide footprint to it. Yeah So it’s not something that you wanna go from not used to inside the waistband holster to having that big of a holster. And I wear them all the time. They’re great I love them but I wouldn’t suggest it for somebody just stepping into the market. Okay.


Brett do you got anything on the leathers or nope? I sell a lot of, I mean, daily in the gun shop I would say the soft leather is what I sell the majority of the time. We do have the tuckable. It’s just it’s one of the ones that it takes a little longer to break in. So people usually stick with the soft leather. The other question I had the tuckable you said it’s more of a full grain Is there what’s the price difference on that versus a standard leather? They’re about fifteen dollars difference something like that but again that’s because we got more in it. We’re not really making any more money. Double the leather just like we talked about. We have little margin on this. It’s double the leather So it’s the same way It’s a…the prices on both of them need to go up and we just put it off and put it off. We’ll see where that goes. We’ll only be able to put it off so long because like Brett said it’s been the same price for ten years and our costs have gone three or four times what they used to be. Mhmm Yeah and even at that even if you know we’re competitive with the market our customer service then the value we give people on other stuff you know I feel more than mix up for it Absolutely.


So on previous episodes we’ve talked about and I’ve asked Brett a lot and kinda got an inquiring mind on some of the stuff and wanna know answers. So the nine millimeter versus forty. And you know you talked about nine millimeter was popular for a long time and then it switched to forty. Then everybody was at forty. Now forty not is dead but everybody’s moving away from forty So over the past week and a half or two I’ve been researching what really happened what kind of was the basic of this. So you’re gonna get a history lesson from Kyle and my non expert status on ballistics and bullets and stuff like that. So basically it kind of stemmed from a nineteen eighty six FBI shootout and I believe that was down in Miami. There is an agent and I don’t know the whole background of why they were going after this specific guy, but got involved in the shootout with a suspect. Had a nine millimeter pistol. He shot the suspect in the chest. The nine millimeter didn’t penetrate all the way to his heart It stopped short. Which let the suspect live and continue firing. That suspect ended up killing two other FBI agents and wounding five other people. So there’s this huge backlash that happened because they’re saying look if he’d had the right bullet or a forty five or whatever, he would have been dead and this wouldn’t have happened.


At the time the agent they were shooting a hundred and fifteen grain Winchester silver tips which is a pretty reputable I mean anything the FBI is gonna be shooting at that time is gonna be beautiful. So the investigation goes on and it led to the FBI making an ammunition protocol for penetration ballistics, all these kinds of things. During their test they ended up adopting the ten millimeter and they had a ten millimeter with a downloaded hundred and eighty green bullet. And they shot that for however many years. And it got to the point where they were shooting their standard model was the s and w ten seventy six In a ten millimeter is what they’re shooting. Agents didn’t like it. You’re saying hey this gun’s too big. It’s too heavy. So they start looking but once the ten millimeters were too big and heavy they’re like alright we’re gonna switch so they switched to a forty. More powerful than a nine but not quite as big as a forty five. So they switched over started shooting all forties. So once the FBI switches, it’s good for the FBI it’s good for the police department. Police departments across the country.


Alright We’re gonna go to forty because that’s what the FBI uses. That’s what we’re gonna start using now. So then you see the same thing in civilians. Just like we talked to our cop buddies they’re talking to their cop friends goes FBI civilians, everybody starts carrying the forty because that’s what the FBI uses. Another thing that happened right around that same time is it had the nineteen ninety four federal weapons assault ban which limited the magazine count. So you could only have ten rounds in your magazine. So a lot of people now, you’d really don’t have a debate on you know the nine millimeter will hold more than the forty or forty five or you could have ten rounds is all you could have in your weapon. So people are like well if I only got ten rounds I’ll take ten rounds, a bigger forty caliber ammo. So this is all leading to just forty getting pumped up because it’s still not quite as big and heavy as a forty five but you got more stopping power than the nine. You get through there. And again the forty fives are typically larger frames too. So people were picking the forties because the frame size is more in line with the nine millimeter. So you get same round caps same frame size bigger bullet.


Anyway, so the when the forty came out, and it says in nineteen nineties the nine millimeter was a hundred years old. And the nine millimeter proponents like it and kind of the initial draw because it was a faster lighter bullet but you got some of the old school guys that are like hey a forty five it’s kinda like in the deer hunting round. It’s like do you want something light and faster? Do you want something big and heavy and slow? So it kinda led to the forty again being the middle ground. But once that, weapon’s been, was gone, then the round cap kinda came back into into effect. And at the same time engineers we’re reworking on the nine millimeter and how to utilize the higher velocity higher rotational, factors. To make it a more accurate round. So it got to the point where due to the FBI standards they’ve got twelve to eighteen inch penetration is what it’s gotta be to be certified.


Well they got it where the nine millimeter and all these companies are nine millimeter that gets the same penetration as the forty does, but it’s a lighter bullet and you can get more of them in there. So all of these things keep leading. So everybody’s kind of trending more towards nine, the farther and farther you get along. The FBI ended up they did tons of tests because they’re always trying to stay on the forefront of this stuff when their main thing came down to shoot ability and they figured out that their agents across the board shot nine millimeter better than they did forty or forty five or any of these calibers because a nine millimeter has well a forty caliber has ten between ten and forty percent more recoil than the nine millimeter does. So what they figured out is that first shot was accurate across the board. When they’re doing quick follow-up shots the accuracy tailed off really quick, shooting those bigger guns heavier recoil. Another huge factor that came into it is when you talk about the magazine sizes.


So on a forty caliber, they’re averaging fifteen rounds. So on three mags you’re getting forty five rounds. Well you take that compared to the nineteen rounds that you’re getting out of a nine millimeter. So and you have the same three magazines you get fifty seven nine millimeter ray mags versus the forty five on the forties. So from a law enforcement standpoint they’re like look we can carry more bullets same amount of mags. Let’s you know space on the officers gear and to carry it around in making them like we talked about earlier all uniform where everybody’s shooting nine where if I get injured or run out I can bar something from Brett or Kevin or whoever. And again, like their studies are finding that in for what we’re talking about concealed carry it didn’t matter as much. As it did law enforcement because statistically, they’re saying in a you know shootout situation you know civilians it’s one mag is what you’re shooting. So whether that’s because people don’t carry back ups don’t reload the fights over that fast for whatever reason. It’s not as important the last thing that I found out was on the forty caliber even though it’s got forty percent more recoil, the wound cavity is only ten percent bigger on average than it is nine millimeters so that’s kind of the, you know layman’s term history of the breakdown on nine and forty.


Do you guys have any initial thoughts here in any of that or none of that surprises me. The forty not that it’s not a great round it is. But like we talked about before it just it lost a lot of appeal just because of round count. And modern ballistics and modern bullets you know. Oh for sure if you take any, not just handguns rifles everything, ballistics, technology along with the weapons everything has advanced so far from back in those times that it doesn’t surprise me at all that nine’s there. And now I mean we can’t get rid of forties around here and it’s just there’s a few people that are stuck on them but very few. We see more people that want forty five than forty. Yeah and the thing I didn’t realize until I started looking down this a forty caliber is bull. I won’t say it’s the same size but it’s the same as the ten millimeter. Yeah It’s the same bullet there. Where as a nine millimeters a point three five five or thirty five and a half caliber.


So I did I honestly did not realize that for a long time so we’re talking earlier about like the people, like how ten millimeters are popular because of Bear Country and stuff is that you know would they be just as good with the forty. Or is there something you guys know if there’s a difference as far as I think when you’re talking about like, bear and stuff like that they’re probably a little different structure wise than a human you’re shooting at. You know I think. Bone structure and stuff. There in your article you sent out there was a gentleman that did protect himself and take a bear down with a nine millimeter. The forty, the reason you’re gonna have a bigger bullet. So you’re looking at a hundred and fifteen a hundred it’s actually cops are usually carrying like a hundred and forty grain now. Not in nine millimeter bullets compared to one hundred and eighty back in the day. So you got the weight difference there alone. So if you’re carrying fifty seven rounds you don’t want that much you know forty grains of each bullet is a lot. Yeah O ounces make pounds. And then I would be curious to see if the FBI is looked into the plus P version of nine millimeter now as well because from what I remember, the plus p is actually penetrates further now Okay.


So and that’s why most police departments are switching to it now and when you talk about bears it’s the same reason why you have different caliber rifles where they’re gonna go shoot a coyote or a deer or a moose or an elk you know there’s different stuff that’s made for I think it’s like when you talk about the ten millimeter for like bear country or stuff I think it’s efficiency of it. No different than around here You could say take a two forty three rifle and kill any deer around here You take a two forty three to a elk out in that country That’s a whole different Not that it won’t kill it It’s the the It really comes down to the energy of the bullet Yes. So that’s why at ten millimeters become so popular because it’s the heavier one hundred and eighty to two hundred grain bullet with the energy of a forty five now.


So instead of you know two hundred and sixty grain or two hundred and fifty grain bullet of a forty five that’s slower, the penetration is so much greater on a ten millimeter. It’s just unbelievable and that’s and that’s why extra rounds as well. It’s no different than an elk. If you’re shooting a three hundred grain three hundred wind mag, or a two forty three, the energy on that two forty three is non existent at three hundred yards. On that three hundred windbag three hundred yards it’s significantly much more because it’s a three hundred grade bullet. You know what I mean. It’s same difference in pistols or rifles. Obviously the distance is way different but so on the hunting side you just wanna be ethical with what you’re doing and I think that’s kind of part of the discussion when it goes to that not that you are going out there to ethically kill a bear you’re defending yourself but it’s the same type of conversation. But at the same point in time you wouldn’t want twenty two pistol out there trying to see the bear person. You wanna stop that bear ten feet away from you not on top of you. That’s the idea. So you’re gonna pick something like a ten millimeter that’s got a lot of energy ten feet away than it does from me to you. You know what I mean. That’s where a nine millimeter’s gonna work. If it’s right on top of me, it’s gonna work but I don’t want it to be right on top of me. I want to stop it or deter it before it gets there.


So it’s kinda like that joke about the bear spray. The guy’s getting ready to go up into you know bear country or whatever for the first time and he stops in the local hardware store and he’s like I need something to protect myself from bears I’m gonna get this bear spray. And the guy’s like alright well wouldn’t you go up there. You gotta be careful and you know learn the difference between a black bear and a brown bear because a black bear will run off but a brown bear is gonna attack him. He was like alright. He’s like so you can tell by their their scat when you’re out in the woods He’s like well how do you tell them the scat and he’s like oh it’s real easy. He’s like if you’re walking and you see some you know bear turds on the trail and they’ve got blueberries in them. You know that’s clear sign that that’s a black bea.r You don’t gotta worry about it. The blueberries and stuff like that but on the other hand if you’re walking down there and you see bear scat and it’s got like closing in and it smells like pepper spray that’s how you know it’s brown bears. It’s like you’ll get yourself a pistol. I think the whole for me the whole takeaway on that is I’m not surprised at all by the bullet but the whole conversation even talking about ten millimeter for the Bear country stuff is overall from a pistol standpoint.


From a nine millimeter, there’s no argument that overall statistically people are gonna shoot a nine millimeter better. Oh for sure. All the follow-up rounds everything else. One shot doesn’t necessarily matter So if you take like the ten millimeter for the bear country discussion, if you can barely handle it and can always shoot one shot and then can’t get back on target again well it still doesn’t do you much good. Absolutely. You know so there’s always that compromise rifles with, big game are the same difference. If you if you can shoot your three hundred win one time and then never want to shoot it again well how much good does you. Well you break your shoulder in the process.


We go back to that story I told about buying that seven mag the day before deer season. That’s why I got rid of it. That thing shot so hard. Like you could not be accurate shooting it. You know I probably could have put a different butt stock or something like that on it but you just dreaded shooting it every time because you felt it in your shoulder every single shot. Again but you go back to you know carrying and you know the being prepared with you know what pistol you’re carrying. It goes back to you know, knowing what you’re carrying in what situation and again like I always carry in the woods just because there’s been times I was talking to Kevin this morning about it where on public land up around here I’ve been out shed hunting and been miles from the truck by myself and came across I don’t know whether it was a homeless camp or whether they were cooking meth or some and out in the woods but some sort of camp out in the woods. And you know it could have been a lot of different things and you’re out there by yourself in the middle of the woods. Either way it’s people that have nothing to lose. So yeah from the from the retail side I also have to put this in there that nine millimeters gotten so popular for the biggest reason is it’s available.


That that’s one of the things that came up in the research too. I’m glad you brought it up that. They say there are three times as many commercial options for nine millimeter ammo as there are for forty. Same with the handgun itself not just the ammo for the handgun itself. They don’t make a forty in every single model anymore. They just don’t, I get the question all the time for the hellcat or you know the p365 or they don’t offer those in forty. So I mean the manufacturers are seeing the decline in forty as well I was gonna say and that tells you that we’re not the only one seeing the decline in other calibers. Even forty five I feel like and I may be wrong but I feel like when we first scope in the gunshot, we got more people wanting forty fives than we do now. The only reason I have one is because I wanted it in nineteen eleven I went to classic nineteen eleven I mean that’s everybody should have one in my opinion. Nineteen eleven. It could’ve went boosie and just got a prodigy or something. Hey maybe if I hit my next thousand multiple we’ll get one. We’re already talking about his tax bracket. He can’t you know yeah You know? Yeah Well it would be nice if they let me have some of it instead of sending it other places you know but that’s a that’s a whole another I think yours are bad. Try it on a business. Oh my god I can’t imagine. Yeah Add it to a business level than sales tax. And oh god.


Well and it’s just weird not to get into specific numbers but say my income went up by ten percent. They’re saying I owe twenty percent more taxes. The rate I my taxes doubled from what I owed last year to this year and the amount that the increase was not enough like everybody’s taxes went up this year for political reasons. You do know that right? And that’s probably part of it. That’s poor people just don’t see it very much. Well and no not to get into my specifics but I have got back a refund every year in my life. And I deal them and I was like what how the hell do I owe money? Like I have too much money taken out as it is and you’re I owe you guys some more on top of it. But if you look at it from a business standpoint even we’re talking about our prices not going up.


So just forget the Kydex. We just talk about Leather holsters yep. They’ve been thirty five. They’re five dollars more now in ten years. Our tax bracket. The more you sell the more your tax bracket goes up. So then you add taxes on it you’re making even less. And that’s why even and that’s why the things I’m proud of that we’ve been able to build like we have without raising the prices. Kydex has gone up because it’s had to do with Kydex is expensive. Material, labor everything. But overall they’ve only gone up thirty percent. Yeah. But you’ve made sacrifices to help. Well come back to yeah well and I will tell you like, we talk about Mike Carr on here all the time and he’s one of the world’s greatest sales guys but he is a hundred percent right in his strategy. He said you either gotta have one or two of the three things. Either gotta have the best price, the best product or the best customer service. It can be any of those two, but I feel like here we have all three. Our prices are competitive. Nobody’s gonna beat our service and we don’t send anything out of the door that’s not perfect or that we wouldn’t wanted to carry. So the value there is across the board where a lot of people could cheap out on their service. Or maybe yeah make it out of thinner material, or maybe you know do this or that or the other and you’ve kept it competitive on all three of the categories. Yeah


We’ve been lucky to be able and like Brett said for me it’s weird to say it but Brett knows because he’s been here as long. This sacrifice is long term to make it happen that way. You know? Yeah There’s cheaper holsters on the it without a doubt. But there’s not a cheaper holster on the market that’s anywhere even in the same arena as ours. And I don’t say that arrogantly like we’re the best. There’s some other great holsters out there but the other holsters that are on par with ours are more expensive than ours. And you’ve been able to do that by and when I say sacrifice I don’t just mean you’re  taking food off your table because we all that’s the goal and goal no matter what.


So we’re not trying to get sympathy by anybody. You’re sacrificing by showing up extra time or making the mold yourself instead of buying them. You know the luxury of the time you know you guys getting together, making one mold and it takes what how much time when you start to finish right now. Just how much time for one month. Gave me a brand new gun I’d never seen I can model it in an hour and a half two hours. Cut the mold in a couple hours. So by the end of the day I could so a day you got twenty you know twelve hours roughly. But then you got testing in it. It’s never one. Yeah. It’s too good. But in the past you used to be able to get on your computer and click it and buy it. And you were done. You just waited till it to get there. You know what I mean. We’re kinda done because then we had to sit there and jack. You take it up and fix fit it right. But that’s what I’m saying. You’re making sacrifices by investing into the business. Oh with that now. To long term keep the cost lower.


Profit wise CNC machining is the worst thing we ever done profit wise. Yeah. Service wise and stuff to the customers and growing wise it’s gonna be the best thing we’ve ever done. So you can’t look at it as one ask and we’re getting to the point now where we’ve got so many of these guns and lights modeled that we just hit on Friday hit our thousand mold that we’ve cut and put in service. So we’ve got a thousand combinations of hands lights inside outside, and you know we haven’t even touched it. No. And I probably got I could probably do three thousand more before it ever slowed down to the point where I felt like I was. Well I’m busy. It still won’t because now I was looking at numbers this morning on just, I looked about once a week and just kinda see what’s trending because it’s weird because we’ll sell a ton of leather holsters for a period for whatever reason and then it will slow down and Kydex will be more. But I was looking at outside the waistband holsters.


We sell more inside the waist light bearing holsters than we do outside the waist holsters which to me is crazy. But it just shows you how much of the market we’ve gained just by offering lights. It it’s pretty drastic because a lot of people can’t do it. Because they have to choose not to. Yeah. They just choose not to. Well and really for them, you know they’re gonna have to go buy a seventy eighty. I don’t know what plate cost for them in a trim pass and they’re gonna be out all this money to maybe make two of them ever where we can take our blocks and well no problem is for most people including us which this is where I say going to CNC machine profit wise is a short term worst thing we’ve ever done because we’re not charging very much more at all for them in the big picture. And for every one of those we have to have the real gun, the real light just for test fitting purposes. I mean that’s what me and Brett were talking about. We got fifty or sixty thousand dollars in pistols. Yeah. Don’t talk about taxes this year. Sitting in the freaking gun shop you know it’s and for most shops you just can’t justify doing that like you said. But we decided to go all in on it. And long term it’s gonna be the best thing we’ve ever done and it’s so nice because you know we get a call like we took a call this morning I was like, hey this doesn’t fit right and I’m and they come across my desk because they’re like, hey look at this. What’s going on with this? And I get it and I go out and I’ve got the real gun in the shop and I’m putting it in there. It’s like this thing fits like a glove. But because we do CNC, I know every one of those that we send out is identical.


So I know I’ve sold a thousand of these holsters already get one back I’m like what’s going on. So we had a conversation and I don’t know whether the guy maybe wanted it to fit a little bit different or you know what happened to tackling really not important. But It’s really not and in the big picture in in manufacturing when you get to the level of I mean I won’t go into specifics but how many holsters we we’ve sent out per day is drastically different than it used to be and way higher than most other companies. The something’s gonna happen in manufacturing. Return rate is gonna be there. You just gotta figure out where that level of acceptance is. On your return and for me it’s weird coming from a non retail all the side time background. Well retail but I’m selling oxygen where it’s perfect every single time. Yeah. There’s no returns so I come and then I see returns and they drive me crazy because I’m like alright what did we screw up? Why is this and I understand some of them where, you know but a lot of it and that’s why we’re so adamant about starting this podcast. And same thing Podcast short term isn’t a big help to people. It’s when you guys start sharing the podcast when you get it out there to people beforehand.


But a lot of the returns are somebody brand new never carried inside the waistband holster, and then they see a light bearing version of something. That’s what I’m gonna carry. Well if you think a normal this is a foreign object in your pants. Try carrying a light bearing holster for you know what I mean. They’re just they don’t know what they want and they haven’t adjusted to what they want and I would tell you too. And one of the things because I designed them all so I gotta see every one of them that comes through and my biggest tip to people who haven’t had a light before would be pick what you want get what you’re happy with but don’t just get the biggest light because it looks the coolest same reason you don’t need a eighty power scope on your deer rifle when you’re hunting in the timber. Get something. Yeah You don’t necessarily need fifteen hundred lumen light on your pistol for something that you shouldn’t be shooting over seven yards with in self defense. Yeah.


You got a small pistol You don’t want a huge light that sticks out really farther in the barrel. You know ideally you’d want it to be you know concealable and not taking up a lot of extra footprint. Yeah And unlike you the return I mean they’re kinda, they’re just part of it, but the reason it doesn’t bother me is because we got the customer service to ninety nine percent of the returns. We’re exchanging them for something else which is what they should have bought originally so that we can educate those people. But and you talk and get them what they want or they can carry instead of not trying again. To be honest we’re probably a little less worried about returns because we’ve seen what returns used to be on the in the old building. Well but oh man it’d be five hundred on the wall. But just like you talk about you take it personally when you know the look of the holster. I take it personally when I get one back and somebody says it doesn’t fit right. Yeah I’m like dude, trust me and so I automatically try not get defensive but I wanna know what’s wrong with it you know was it you know something machine got out of spec for a minute or did they get the wrong one or can I do something to that holster to make it a little bit better where we don’t have the issue.


And that’s a good thing. It’s nothing’s ever perfect. We may change these molds ten times in the next five years you know so nothing’s ever perfect as long as we can build off of it. And then sometimes it’s just what a personal preference is. What I like you guys may like let alone hundreds of thousand customers that we’re sending these holsters to yearly. You know you get a lot of opinions in there and not meaning ours are right or theirs is right or vice versa. It’s just there’s no one perfect anything. It don’t matter if it’s gun related or not. If anybody had one perfect product for anybody everybody in the world, they’d be bigger than Amazon. You know. Sure. It’s just, we’re gonna be there. No that’s a goal. Yeah.


So all of this that we’ve been talking to really leads in and we’ve got another question from a female which I love to see that I feel like women are sometimes hesitant to reach out and you know about the guns and stuff like that so number one I’m glad for this lady asking the question then I’m glad that we have female listeners to the show too for a show that can be construed mainly you know towards a male audience. We’re here for everybody. So if you’re listening, do not hesitate there are no dumb questions. We would love to answer anything we could. But this question is from Cassie in Shawnee Kansas and then she says I am new to firearms and eventually want to carry concealed. How do you recommend I get more comfortable with guns so I can carry responsibly in the future? Which is I feel like a really self aware question. So she’s got the desire to protect herself but she’s got no background maybe nobody to teach her. For somebody that’s brand new whether this is a guy or a girl or whoever what’s kind of the entry to getting into the gun world for people?


By asking that question, tells me because I’ve done this long enough that she’s gonna be okay in learning, you know that’s the people that don’t put that to the forefront. For women specifically because that’s who’s asking the question. I think the best thing to do and there’s a lot of women trainers out there nowadays which is great. They have women’s only classes like if you’re around us, Frontier Justice has some wherever your local ranges are, I would almost guarantee you there’s women only classes. Which takes away the stigma of the guy trying to be John Wick with his fifty eight round mag. Yeah It takes away all the, you know uncomfortableness of it because if you’re not in firearms and you’re going into firearms you already feel uncomfortable last thing you need to do is having somebody even more uncomfortable. Making it feel like you’re being judged and that’s why I tell people all the time people especially come in the gun shop and you can tell the girl or wife or whoever is trying to and the guy’s like, and then he wonders why she isn’t learning anything.


We’ll just first thing I could say is get away from your husband. Or it don’t matter. Well they say that about playing golf too Like don’t try and teach your spouse how to golf because you’re gonna Go go to somebody else you trust If you’re a woman I would highly suggest the women’s classes, but do hands on classes. Don’t go do just nothing but book classes. Those are great, but the only way you’re gonna get familiar with it is doing it with actual guns. And you don’t even have to buy a gun to start those classes because majority of instructors will loan you their gun or rent you their guns. They’ll start with smaller calibers. They’ll start with all the basics to get you comfortable and that’s where I highly recommend it just like Kevin was kind of my first thought too for somebody, say you can’t afford to go do the class right now or like me with my kids or my wife I taught all of them how to shoot with the twenty two pistol to start off with because there’s not a lot of recoil you know we got to shoot we got familiar handling a gun you know taking it off safety you know keeping the barrel down ring things like that. So I think starting with the smaller calibers and working your way up to get more confident, is probably a good way to go the women’s only classes I think are a fantastic idea.


And then I would go one step even further you know if they’ve got multiple guns they’ll shoot them. But there’s also once you get more comfortable I know there’s a lot of ranges at rent guns. Mhmm. So you can go rent four five eight. How many guns you want but fit one where it’s like the excalibur sword in the stone. Like you pick it up like that thing fits my hand perfect I shoot it great I’m comfortable with it. It’s you know the right size, all of that. Yeah. If you’re brand new I’m like Brett I wouldn’t even suggest you go buy a new gun until you’ve done some training. Oh yeah. Because after you do some training and this is men women. It don’t matter what you think or don’t think you won in a gun will change. There is an unconventional method as well that women men all the above, can check. And as your local churches almost majority of church groups have a group of people that are church security teams. Yes security teams or vice versa. Our church had a actual firearms group that went. That’s what I’m saying. They’re getting all over. Right I hear about them all the time in the store now. So if you have a church a local church that you attend, just talk to people. And I would almost bet there’s a group of people that’s willing to work with you and get you started.


The other thing I would say and this goes for whether like we talked about getting on the airplane with your gun or if you’re gonna drive to Disney World or if you’re going on a road trip, know this law is for your state that you live in any state that you’re gonna take that firearm to. And whether that’s on a vacation you know flying just you know we live on the border here. You know you’re driving into Missouri Kansas you know back and forth you know, just know the different laws for the different states are gonna be in while you’re carrying that weapon. So you’re saying, don’t just say rather be judged by twelve and then carried by six. Yeah. Is that what you’re saying. Actually check your laws. I would highly recommend checking the laws and the other thing I’d really urge people to do is look at some sort of the insurance policies that and I’m gonna research those more too. You know there’s a lot of them that are really affordable that provide protection if you have to use it and I know that US CCA they’ve got huge volumes of information on different states. And I would start there you know if you’re gonna start researching. Yep. Yep. Go to trainers, get trained and then once you do decide what pistol you want and buy one, train with that. As much or more than you trained in the other classes and just make it a habit to do.


And one other thing that I just thought of and we talked about it remind me the name of the laser training system not the is it Mantics? Yeah the Or yeah Mantis. Mantis. I’m sorry Yeah Look at getting the Mantis system or yeah. I’m sure there’s other manufacturers of them but some sort of yeah because on that you can use your actual gun that you do choose to get used to dropping the mag manipulating it stuff like that And that’s something you know a lot of people you know whether it’s lifting weights or you know shooting their bow or doing that, that using that Mantis system doesn’t you don’t have to take an hour a day to do it If you took ten minutes a day and did it or a couple times a week. Anything you do is gonna help. Ten minutes a week you’d be ahead of ninety nine percent of people carrying. And you wanna get to the point where through any training where it’s automatic. Where you’re not thinking about if you have to draw your weapon where’s the safety? Is it loaded? All of these things that come into effect and especially females nowadays, I feel like that’s why the market’s growing so much is there’s just so much crappy shit in the society nowadays and stuff happening and parking lot stuff like what we were talking about. It’s just they need to be prepared some way.


I’ve seen these videos and I don’t know what triggers them It’s like you look at one and then you get all of them but groups of thugs just attacking women like just run up and punch them like on subway platforms and stuff. And I don’t know what the background any of these videos are but there’s a lot of troubling stuff out there where I would urge anybody to you know if you can concealed carry do it if you don’t maybe you know get some method of self defense and just keep your head on a swivel. You know maybe you really wanna walk down the street to go to that store there but there might be a group of people out in front of it Yeah you might not go there You might go later You know just keeping your head on a swivel don’t be looking at the phone and just staying alert. Well another thing I’d tell people in general one of the business mentors I had and still have to this day. Told me when going through, it was talking about accounting and accountant. And all that stuff that goes with business is you want somebody with the heart of a teacher that is teaching you. Just because you’re paying them doesn’t mean they get to do whatever they want with your money or your taxes, make them teach you. Well the same thing is with concealed carry. There’s no one trainer that knows everything. I know I’m a break some trainer’s hearts out there thinking that they’re the best in the world. There’s a lot a lot of good trainers that look at things multiple different ways. If whoever you’re going to I don’t care if it’s a woman class, the church the whatever, whoever’s teaching you make sure they have the heart of a teacher to teach you. There is no dumb the only dumb questions are the ones that you don’t ask.


So and I run into this a lot with these firearms guys. In general and I hate to say that but it’s true. Mostly it’s the firearms instructor guys that think they’re better or think they got some persona to them which is not what they should have in that environment, especially as a female. If you can’t answer ask questions to them and get an answer, go somewhere else because even as men I’ve seen it in some of these places like hey these people are here to learn. You don’t gotta be a dick. You know what I mean and it happens a lot because you get that persona or a lot of these guys trainers could be military guys. And just come off harsh or whatever. Well you need to teach these people not. So if you can’t feel like you can ask anything and get an answer, go somewhere else. You’re not at the right trainer and everybody’s coaching style and the way they take instructions different. So that guy who’s real hard line may be good for a certain group of people where other people he may not. So it’s like yeah If you’re more in an advanced class those guys are probably great. But if you’re a beginner or guy girl anything you need to know answers and it doesn’t matter if it’s a stupid answer, because the answers in your head are what makes you feel comfortable. And the only thing I can see being a universal need for a real hard line is a safety aspect of you know when you’re out on the range handling again the safety you know has gotta come first.


Now there’s you know ways to teach that where you’re not being a jerk to people. But you know and I feel like most qualified trainers that’s gonna be their primary focus anyway. It should be. Yeah. It’s just like anything. There’s all sorts of ways to become a quite trainer nowadays. So just because somebody has a title of a trainer doesn’t mean they’re better than anybody else. So just make sure you can get your questions answered and that may be something we look at doing one day because we’ve all shot enough and going down the road and getting certified as actual trainers where we can you know talk as trainers to people and you know we don’t have to put out the disclaimer. Well I’m not a trainer anymore but yeah I think it’d be a cool thing to do at some point down the road is maybe offer limited classes but not a traditional class. Like today most of the classes you go to are you know do this and just make it a job. So no different than this podcast. We make zero off of this podcast. We’re doing it as a service to somebody. I think if there was a training group or organization even not us, something where it was people that didn’t have to make money off of it that were doing it for the sole purpose of teaching people not to sell them nothing not to whatever but to genuinely help I think it would change the world of training altogether. Mhmm Because there’s so many of these guys that make their living off of it and they book a class here they just wanna get through the day.


At the end of the day I mean I hate to say it but some of them don’t care. They’re trying to make their rent payment. Yes. It’s a job to them. It’s like okay dude I gotta be here until five. Ask your few questions I can leave. Whereas if you had a group of people even if it wasn’t us a group of people that were in that situation where they could help and maybe not be the best trainers in the world but do it with the heart of teaching. And not an alternative method to it I think it would change a lot of things in the industry. So I would tell people if anybody’s listening and would be interested in that shoot a email over to [email protected]. And if it’s not us we may be able to bring in somebody for the day or do something like that in the future if demands there.


We’re affiliated with different people that we know through the industry that, you know we can partner in different things and do it to help people not to make money and speaking of you know the podcast and yeah we’re doing this. If there’s somebody who would like to sponsor the podcast again reach out [email protected] you know not saying that you know we’re gonna be you know taking on every sponsor on earth but there’s definitely opportunities for people to reach out and do that if they wanted to. I know next week, I’m really excited to shoot next week we’ve got Brett Courtwright from war horses for vets. He’s gonna come talk to us about the work they do with helping soldiers transition pre and post deployment, police officers you know any public service people any military. Helping them with PTSD stuff like that. They do a lot of really good work. They’re local here in Kansas City so we’ll have a good talk with Brett next week.


So definitely if you’re listening to this tune in next week for sure. We’ll get him on here and kinda pick his brain and he’s got a lot of a lot of good stories a lot of good background. So that may be a two parter with Brett. We won’t finish it one day because we’ll have funny stories with Brett and we’ll have the serious stuff of war horses and all the good stuff they do. And it’s kind of the same thing They’re non profit The same thing I just said about training, they’re doing it with the heart to help people, and that’s why they can do good. Yeah and they do an excellent job and you know my goal is to get their name out there because I feel like there’s a lot of people who could greatly benefit from them and the fact that Brett’s an old friend too. Absolutely. Cool. As always we got code mrt podcast If you use that on the website or in the gun store it will get you fifteen percent off holsters t shirts hats stuff like that not guns unfortunately. I don’t even get fifteen percent off of guns.


But so do that you can follow us on all of the major social media platforms look up muddy river tactical. If you have problems finding that problems finding podcasts, can look like I said muddyrivertactical.com. We’ve got a videos tab on there. Got all the Kevin’s gun reviews training tips podcasts are on there, anything like that. We are gonna have Brett doing some rifles here pretty soon. He said the other day. What are we doing? You said you’re gonna do rifle videos. Well yep put me on the spot like that I’m the now it’ll make him do it. Are you making him like is he doing guns or is he? No Kevin does the pistols and I think I’m gonna start trying to do some review videos on rifles shotguns stuff like that. That’ll be really cool. Kinda give somebody a little different.


For those of you that don’t know Brett here he’s kinda warmed up a little bit from the podcast But even the first podcast he is shitting bricks. Oh yeah about it all. Yeah I’m sitting over there I’m definitely camera shy. Like don’t look at me. I remember coming over here to the studio the first time I’m like Brett you realize they can’t see you right? You’re just talking to me across the table I was like I know they’re watching. Yeah They’re definitely watching. So that’s always been his holdup on YouTube. It’s just and it is different like I said I look at my first YouTube videos and I’m like damn that’s terrible. But there’s a transition to it. It’s jus, let’s do it. But this is kind of an in between for him but he’s got a lot of knowledge and more rifle stuff than what I do and it’s a lot of stuff but cool stuff that comes through the shop that people are interested in. So it kinda split the workload where you guys don’t have to look at me all the time You can look at Brett sometimes too. Cool thing I’d like to see is not even new stuff and maybe old stuff and maybe get a trade in or an estate sale that comes in. Some buddies that definitely know that industry way more than I do. So maybe it would do a little bit if you get a gatling gun or a cannon and we’re taking it up to the range and we’re shooting that thing. I’m down.


So what do they call that collaborating? Yeah We can collaborate with there’s a guy that comes in the gun shop that’s super into like old stuff military and has a YouTube channel that does well. So if we can collab or whatever you call that on YouTube. Maybe the three of us just need to go up their pawn store style. And see that yeah because they always got cool stuff. We got Chumlee. Or Brentley’s pretty good. We me and you did just visit the Von storage store. We did go out there when we were in Vegas. So which one would I be? Would you be you’d have to be the old man then. So would I be Rick. No you’re my Corey. You’re that’s al.l Okay. So on the Corey you’re the Rick and, with the old man he’s gone oh dad.


Can you imagine dad on the podcast? You’d have to hit this button. Let me tell you about that. Yeah. You’d never hear anything on the podcast it’s been nine freaking episodes. I’ve been waiting to hit that red button. I finally I found my time. Maybe we can get Brett’s old boss on there or something for the old man. Let it be. Or it could be for the voice tape. Oh gosh I’m not gonna hit any more buttons. Yeah People are probably sick of hearing me by now guys. We appreciate you guys joining us this week. Definitely check-in next week. We’re gonna have Brett from war horses on here And until next time keep practicing and always be prepared. See you guys. Thanks everybody.




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