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Podcast Episode 7 Outside the Waistband


Welcome back to the Muddy River Tactical podcast my name is Kyle Mason. I’m joined today by Brett Davis and my brother Kevin Mason owner of Muddy River Tactical. On this episode we’re gonna be talking about outside the waistband holsters the way we make them what we think makes ours great. Different ways people can wear them different belt attachment stuff like that. I’m gonna get into a little bit of gear review today. We got a Eberlestock recon pack here. I had the pleasure of using it this weekend walking through the woods looking for some deer sheds. So we’ll kind of go over it what we liked and what we didn’t like about it. Have a viewer question of the week and see what else we got into. 


So kinda talked about how I went shed hunting this weekend for a little bit. What did you guys do? What’d you do Brett? That worked first thing Kevin did help me out this week. I showed up to the gun shop on Saturday and he thought he was falling over. I helped three customers. That’s my quota for the month. So him showing up in the gun shop. That’s like a ghost sighting or something. Oh for sure. It’s definitely a feat in itself. But while he was there, he did get to help a couple customers. I was proud of him. He did forget what he was doing quite often. It was pretty funny. It’s comical. Even customers notice it’s actually really great. That’s not my department. Maintenance job. Yeah That’s maintenance slash whatever you call that job title he’s got over there. What were you doing? Sell them guns or ammo or a little bit? I sold a gun. At least one fair What did that set that customer you said that you sold this gun to? What did he tell you? I don’t know about the gun? Oh I I may or may not have ordered it for him. Oh well he didn’t close the deal last time so I had to close the deal. Gotcha Yeah Closing the deal is everything. If you don’t you know get it out the door it doesn’t matter. We can order ten thousand guns and if we don’t sell them it doesn’t matter. That’s if you’re wanting ten thousand guns, Kevin’s the guy to do it. 


So before we go too far it kinda just segways naturally into this. We got an awesome viewer question of the week we’re talking about selling guns in the gun shop. Mhmm We’ve got our buddy Tyler from Rondo Missouri. And he actually caught me this weekend while I was now Pharmy’s neighbor of ours down there. Listen to the podcast and he was asking me, he’s like Hey look I’ve got a couple of guns I don’t shoot anymore looking to take him into my local gun shop. What can I do to get the most money out of them? Was part one. And part two of that was is he better taking them to a gun shop where you can transfer them or is it better to try and do an individual? I know there’s a lot of stigma around that right now.


Well right now, the word better I guess is controversial when you’re talking about selling them to a gun shop or to an individual. Your rights are still there. You are allowed to sell to individuals obviously there are rules that you have to follow and know those rules, but it is safer in the long run for yourself to go through a shop and do a transfer. And the only reason it makes it safer is if that gun is ever used in a crime or any kind of scenario like that, they’ll need to track that serial number down and if it goes through the transfer process, then you’re already cleared. Now is that something like if I’m gonna sell a gun to Kevin we can come into the gun shop and do it through you and have the gun shop facilitate it that way? Yeah Absolutely. In most gun shops that allow transfers, we’ll do this as well. Fees do vary everywhere all over the country but yeah, if Kevin brings the gun into me, I put it into my books from Kevin and I put it out to you on a background check. And you do the paperwork you do the it’s not like a gun show where you come in and grab a gun and just leave. That’s just that still applies at a gun shop. We still have to do paperwork so that sounds safe for you because most of these guns are worth you know significant amount of money so you’re meeting somebody, you know theoretically with cash to pay them for this thing. And we’ve had guy come in the gun shop not a lot I think just one that I can remember, but was buying a gun from another individual to transfer him to we asked for his driver’s license because we gotta have his driver’s license and he wouldn’t give us his driver’s license Yeah. Well that’s a red flag right there If they have nothing to hide which we legally have to anyways from the transfer but if that guy would have sold it to him individually, that guy may or may not have been able to own a gun in the first place. And it’s not the person selling the gun’s responsibility to know that, but it’s not the safest way to do it either not knowing well and I don’t know what the laws are regarding it but you know god forbid he went and used that gun in a crime and then you know the victim’s families could sue you for you know selling this guy a gun. Oh yeah. We’re in a sue happy world now. Well this was like 2020.


I got a story that can kinda back what we’re saying up here. So we got our FFL at the end of nineteen or the first of twenty September of. It had to be nineteen. I think is nineteen Yeah. So up until then we’re always talking about the other local gun shop here This was probably in twenty twelve thirteen. I bought a car I think is a c w nine from the other gun shop here in town well before I was even doing holsters. And it’s like twenty seventeen or eighteen. I sold it back then. The big thing was like it wasn’t gun broker What was that other one? Midwest gun trader Yeah Midwest gun trader. And I sold it to a guy and it’s all legal to sell whatever. He probably turned around and sold it or who knows what he did with it. But long story short, it was like mid it’s during COVID. So mid twenty twenty end of twenty twenty somewhere in that range. I got a call one day and it was the Johnson County Sheriff’s department. And I’m thinking okay well we deal with police departments and holsters all the time. And the guys start asking for meeting and stuff I’m like yeah okay whatever that’s fine. He started asking a bunch of questions and then he realized we had a gun shop. He goes well that’s kinda weird. So he started asking me long story short they had found this gun in Shawnee Mission Park abandoned or in a ditch or whatever. It was found in Shawnee Mission Park. And if me having a gun shop helped, because obviously he knew I had the capability to looked a gun up and transferred everything, but he never came up and talked to me but he called for sure trying to track that gun. Oh well Mhmm.


Yeah So any kind of paper trail you’d have would be huge and I would tell people like I’ve sold guns in the past you know to individuals but I keep them in my safe. I’ve got the serial number the address you know everything on the people. That way in case that gun shows up, well and me personally I don’t even like I mean I know it’s a super popular thing but like Facebook marketplace and all that I don’t even really like meeting people places for anything anyways let alone a gun. If you’re gonna make fifty dollars more on it to me that’s nowhere near worth the risk of handing somebody a gun in a parking lot.


Well when we talked about the transfer fees and they’re different at different places but ours is about twenty five thirty bucks. It’s not a lot of money dollars for normal transfer fee twenty dollars for coffin military. Okay and that’s probably pretty standard I mean I think if probably under fifty bucks you know wouldn’t you guess anywhere you can win. They’re going up all over. Okay I know local shop here is that seventy five now at frontier. Well the thing with transfers is and with us having the holster company it helps where the holster company and gun shop work together, as far as income and sell sales and stuff like that but a straight gun shop. You gotta figure transferring a gun is the exact same amount of paperwork as buying a gun and selling it ourselves. It’s no different and it’s even more of a because then you got the people calling going hey my gun was delivered five minutes ago I’m coming to pick it up. It’s like well we haven’t even put in the computer or opened it. You know you got more hassle than selling a gun of your own. Mhmm.


So people wonder like well they’re just screwing me charging me fifty bucks. Other gun shops but really they’re not because it’s the same amount of work. If they’re gonna make fifty or sixty bucks on one of their guns they sell they have to do the same thing for your gun that you saved twenty dollars on by buying somewhere else instead of them. And the other part about it comes in the record keeping requirements. How long are you keeping records on this gun? Well that’s just changed its life like time of the business now and once a business if the business ever closes or changes hands we have to transfer all that information to the ATF. So that’s a huge long term commitment too to make fifty bucks on a transfer. So it’s not just you know they filled out one form and that’s it. Well and the ATF will call and track certain guns at different point and never tell you why. They’ll ask for this serial number and who it went to or whatever to track where it went in the process of it. So I mean at that fifty bucks you still did all the up front work, but then you gotta deal with calls for if they call every day for a serial number on something you did, you gotta spend labor time doing that Yeah. That makes sense.


So when they’re bringing in these guns in know everybody wants you know top of the market value. You know and any gun shop’s gonna be probably about half of what it’s retail for. Yeah So locally, I can only speak to what I know roughly around these parts fifty to sixty percent and obviously, that percentage can vary; popularity of gun, rarity of gun, whether somebody at the gun shop would like the gun whether it’s our gun shop or Cabela’s wherever it may be, you know things can vary. I’ve seen guns come in that where I have trouble with is if they buy the gun from us and then they bring it back because they didn’t like it or didn’t fit their hand or wife didn’t like it or they just don’t shoot it. And they wanna change it out, it still has the same problem as you’re selling a used gun. And our margins are gonna stay the same and that’s you know sometimes. So to get back to the same the question at hand a little bit, it’s hard to answer this question and make customers happy because the gun shop is the safest way to sell a gun. But it’s not the most profitable. Unless the only way I would say to ever make money on guns until I get your money the worth out of them is to collect them save them and down the road, move those guns cause guns will eventually you know, appreciate in value. Selling and buying it this year, next year you don’t like it and selling it. You didn’t appreciate any value. You’re actually gonna lose value on so it’s hard to get that and keeping them in good condition obviously it’d probably be the number one deal because you can have the nicest gun on earth. But if it’s all rusted out you’re not gonna have a lot of value there. What on the other thing is from a used gun standpoint not just our shop any shop. If I walk into any other gun shop across the country it doesn’t matter who it is and they have a brand new gun for whatever say four hundred bucks. Just for instance and the used ones three fifty. I’m gonna buy the new one because you know what’s happened to it whatever. So and that’s what we tell people all the time like, even though it’s only worth what somebody will give you for it. So for a shop if we put a used one next to a new one which we have all the new ones already, unless it’s a gun that we just can’t get or something then it’s a little bit different but unless it’s eighty or a hundred bucks cheaper people won’t even look at it. And then you sit on it for six months and you’re out the investment.


Well I mean think about all these guns you see you know one in particular but all the guns you see that people have issues with and misfiring stove pipes blah blah blah blah blah. List goes on and on you never know if you’re inheriting problems or not. Which on a new gun you could have problems too but at least it’s a brand new gun you send to the manufacturer you know, you just never know what you’re getting with any used thing no different than a used car or truck you drive it off the lot You’re losing money. Guns are the same way. They hold their value better than some things but you’re never gonna spend four hundred dollars on a brand new gun and go get four hundred dollars out of it again. I mean that’s just not the only time that happens is a brand new release that would you know is gonna be limited release. And like there’s a dark side version of a Marlin. You can right now they’re selling two thousand and above. They’re supposed to be twelve fourteen hundred dollars but that goes back to the demand thing. The gun’s not worth that much more. No It’s what somebody will give you for it because they can’t get it. So it’s kind of a unique situation there where it’s not the guns just miraculously worth a bunch more. As soon as it comes back out and they’re available everywhere it’s gonna drop right back off. Yeah Those are pretty good tips and I think that’ll answer a lot of questions you know that our listeners might have. And you know if you have any more you know you can always call in and ask and go from there.


So this week we’re gonna talk about our kydex outside the waistband holsters. We’ve got a few of them around here on the table. We’ll just start off with kind of the classic sorry for the banging, but this is our take on what I would call the classic outside the waistband holster. Would you call it something different Kevin? Well that’s a light bearing one but yes. Well yeah this one’s got the light bearing option underneath. we’ve got one here without the light bearing I just didn’t let somebody look at the normal one if they’re watching the video. I’m like why is it so wide? Oh yeah. Because it’s a light. So on our outsides, there are two piece shell design. You can see if you’re watching at home the different colors here. They’re riveted together and then they have a retention point on the non light bearing that’s right underneath the trigger. On the light bearing it’s gonna be underneath the light. One of the nice things when we were designing these it took a long time to get these right. Because most companies will have a bend on either side. And that’s to get the clips in closer to your body hold the clips in the holster flat against your body while minimizing footprint.




What we did is not only are they curved in like this but if you look from the side they’re curved in toward well they’re out towards the top. So when you’re wearing it pulls the grip in towards your body, which we did a lot of testing on and we figured out that walking around hiking, even jogging. It made it a lot more comfortable to wear this holster where it’s secure against your body. What do you gotta say about them Kevin? Yeah So that wedge you’re talking about really for small guns it doesn’t matter as much but the more even these micro guns come with more rounds in them when the guns in the holster the mag is up above the holster so it makes it top heavy. So without that even with a small gun with ten rounds and it’ll have the tendency to lean out on the top so that combats that and pulls the top back in a little harder which doesn’t make it uncomfortable. You’d never know it wearing it but it’s just slightly enough to where it makes it easier to conceal, easier to just be secure to your body. And that’s where the engineering came in that took so long is that the holes were right. The trim passes lined up. It’s real easy on a flat piece but when you add in that second layer you know every curve you add in there you’re adding more geometry to it. Figuring out how to drill the holes at the right angle stuff like that. So they good. So what I’m if I’m understanding correctly, you put a wedge in there instead of a customer buying a foam wedge and sticking it to the back? For the outside, correct. Yes. Because there’s no reason to put a foam piece under there if you can make it on the sides.


And this goes back to the conversation we’ve had on all the holsters. You don’t see them like that because these people aren’t making their own molds. And then second of all I can tell you from the time that we spent trying to figure that out not saying that we’re better than anybody else but that’s a lot of engineering goes into making that work and being able to cut the molds that way without throwing everything else off. So we cut those molds out of straight two inch blocks, which are about four times as expensive as a normal block and you’re talking seventy five dollars a piece just for the straight block and we’ve wasted. I couldn’t even tell you how many of them I wouldn’t say it’s a waste. Yeah. Not a waste but they’re like the cost of it but most places after they went through ten or fifteen they’re like nope that doesn’t work and we knew it had to work so we didn’t release them until we could make it work which we are hoping we’d have them about three months before we did but that’s just what it took to get them right. Yeah And those are conversations we always talk about our quality control and making it a muddy river holster. It’s something we wanted on there It was important to us to differentiate ourselves from the rest of the herd. And really if you put on one of these versus one of the competitors it’s a night and day fit difference even on you know this MC9 here. You’ve put one of theirs one of ours and the the fit is just a whole lot better.


Another question we get all the time is their adjustable cant on these outsides. And that’s all done through where the belt clips are placed in these holes. The bigger guns obviously will have more going up and down so you get a little bit more adjustment. But normally if you offset by one hole which all of them have enough to offset by one that gets you pretty close to your fifteen degrees. Just with the spacing the way they are. The other thing it does is it gives you adjustable ride height. So you can vary it down. Like this one here is kind of set in the middle But this holster could go up or down depending on customer preference. How do how do a lot of people wear these? Is it more in the middle or do they like them sunk down lower or is there a better way It depends on the barrel length of gun because what a lot of people…do is like especially in this winter and springtime when you’re wearing a sweatshirt or light coat or something That’s when you can get by with carrying those all the time And there are some people that get by with it with a t shirt but it’s not as normal. But depending on, you know where their waistline hits you’ll see people where their pant right height is on different people. But where the bottom of it isn’t sticking out below their code or something.


So me personally the way mine is I could have it I would rather have the clips up which drop the holster just a tad because then it makes the top which is the top heavy part even less top heavy. Yeah That makes sense If that was me because if you move them to the bottom no matter how you’re trying to fix it with that wedge you’re still moving the gravity tipping point down for the top heaviness of it. Yeah I would agree and the thing the nice thing about that wedge is it is the whole length of the holster. No matter whether you have your clips on the bottom or the top you’re still getting the benefit of that top angle and into your body. They all come with sweat shields that are all optic cut. They all are ready for suppressor height sides and all of them have open ends to accommodate threaded barrels, suppressors obviously, they won’t work with suppressors. I mean we may have one that would fit in there but I would tell people probably not because that’s a whole another.


No I mean to make it work holster with a suppressor it wouldn’t be that style holster and I don’t know why you would anyways. I’ve seen a couple on the market but they’re not practical. It’d be a really long draw unless it’s just grabbing the bottom. The ones on the market are either grabbing the light that’s on it or like the bottom part of the barrel and that’s it and then the whole top of your guns exposed. And that because it would have to be because if you make them like we do, we always talk about the widest part like a light having to go through. Well that whole can would have to go through your whole holster, and then you’d have a huge two or three inch gap on top of your holster for it to flop it around in and it’s just not practical. No That makes a lot of sense and I think we get that question quite often too will they fit and right now no that’s not saying we never will but know there will just have to be enough of a market for it because right now and we talk to a lot of people there’s nobody that’s really gonna other than go to the range and at cool and for other buddies there’s nobody that wants to practically use a holster like that. You know it’s just a novelty type of thing.


Well and that just adds another, what minimum five six inches to the length of your barrel? Well and I feel like as a company especially a company that promotes training and stuff like that or putting the wrong idea to people because that’s not practical first of all. Like, I don’t know I just don’t think it puts people in a good situation I mean I get it’s a novelty thing they wanna like John Wick in front of their friends but I think it would be better than going with a company that doesn’t have their reputation to uphold if they want to do that. Sure I mean you can probably find a lot of people that make something work out of the garage or not but on a big scale. Some of these companies that just one or two guys that never plan on growing anymore. They really don’t have a reputation to uphold. The holster market’s so big I feel like we’re just now getting to a point where we kinda have a true reputation in the holster business and that’s after ten years and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of holsters.


So if you’re a guy that does five hundred holsters a year there’s no reputation you have to worry about I mean you’re just a Kydex guy in the garage somewhere you know? Yeah No It’d be no different than like some oddball car.  You know a car that sells twenty cars a year. What difference does it make. They don’t have to have a market share of anything whereas Ford or Chevy or somebody has to please everybody. Yeah Absolutely. Another thing about these like we talked about light bearing is not gonna have the click retention, but are our standard non light bearing outside have the normal click retention that you get from kydex. Again that’s adjustable by the screw. We do have adjustable retention like I talked about. On both of them and that’s through the screw placed underneath the light. All of them are test fit before they came out or get shipped to you and we try and set them right in the middle. So whether that’s inside outside we try and make them just pretty what we’d call normal. Some people like them way tighter. Some people like them almost to fall out. Well that’s the hard part about retention and that’s why I’ve told people ever since we started. What we think is perfect, you could think is either into the spectrum way too loose or way too tight. I mean we’ve got holsters that people shipped back that one of them tighter that I don’t know what they’re doing with them because you literally have to pry it out of there, but it’s just people like things different ways and there’s not necessarily a right or wrong but we try to give them the adjustable retention so they can change it up to a certain extent, but still if you’re on like the totally end of the spectrum and you want a gun to just almost slide out of a holster Kydex probably isn’t what you need but we have people that send them back and want them almost where they fall out. But as a business standpoint we have to draw a line on both sides of the spectrum too loose too tight, for insurance purposes.


Well literally in the gu shop and it is one of the few times I got red faced in front of a customer Mhmm In a gun shop he came and I’ve tried to work with him for like twenty minutes, is a light bearing holster I’m trying to explain to him why it has to be that way. The light has to go through the holster and all this. And I’m sitting there he said it’s way too tight. Okay So I adjust it Brett can contest to this. You can turn the holster and it falls out on the table. So he’s putting it in his waist and going see it won’t draw. Well he was drawing at an angle I’m like you can’t draw your gun sideways out of a holster that comes straight back up and he argued with me for how long fifteen minutes and finally I wasn’t like okay well just refund you. Nope that’s not what I want I’m like well I can’t please you and I can’t make a holster that it’s like forty five degree draw. Yeah I mean, we’re gonna have to change your clip angle to that angle so you can draw at that angle. And he’s like nope that’s not what I want I’m like well then that’s just it’s not gonna work. They got to the unfortunate part where alright I’m gonna put it on paper where you’re taking all viability of this holster then if this is what you want we’re not gonna be responsible for anything and he left after that. He’s like no we’re not doing any of that anymore. So he I think he finally got the point that that’s what we cared about. I mean you want to do what you want to do with your own holster, that’s fine but for us there’s a safety side of it as well.


Yeah and that was one of those weird things like when I went over there I’m like okay yeah I’ve dealt with this three hundred times you know there’s nothing wrong with wanting it, you know looser or tighter. But when you’re literally we’re sitting here showing him like you’re turning it and it’s just falling out how much looser could it possibly be without just rattling. And like flopping in and out. And he’s like oh yeah this is perfect and he draws his here literally the take this holster, is like this instead of going up which is what you have to do he’s pulling it like this. I’m like it’s never gonna come out like I would have to make you a holster that’s a square and the gun just sits down in a box for you to be able to pull it out that way. Yeah It’s not the pivot and draw method Right? But that’s just an extreme circumstance but it can change very greatly between people and what they’re used to you know that some people also get a Kydex holster that came from one of the more, like less reputable companies I guess and it has a looser fit or uses the thinner Kydex. So they’re like well this one has a super loud click to it. Well it has a super loud click to it because it’s not molded worth a damn to begin with and they’re using 60 kydex.


So I’m like watch your holster when it goes down there in their other holster it’s stretching like that hard snapping back on the gun I’m like well that’s not how it should be. Like, you get click but you know they’re just yeah and it’s not gonna be as durable on the long term and all the other stuff that comes along with it. Absolutely. So another option we have for outside and this is fairly new to us. It’s something one of the first projects I worked on when I was here but we call this our mock series holster. M A C H for multiple attachment custom holster. And the reason behind that this is my personal one I carry for my XDS. It’s got a tech lock on the back. You’ll notice it’s really similar to our insides but we’ve added another hole down below the trigger guard which gives it a little more retention a little more stability in there It’s more designed for well it is designed for outside the waist but more of a duty slash range holster. Works great on again really a lot of people use them on the bigger guns a lot of drop leg mounts tek-loks things like that I’ll show you on my other one here. This is another example, but we’ve got these multiple hole preps that go into the back of it here So just like our insides have multiple hole preps for different clips, We’ve got different belt attachments that will fit onto our mach series there.


One of the more popular ones I would say is probably the blade tech stingray. Yep. We sell quite a few of those these will fit belt what up to two inches. The sting rays will go up to two inches. Yes K And so will the tek loks? Okay So the stingray and then like here’s the tek lok and for you people on the road feel free to look this up on YouTube or you can Google them but they’re both really nice clips, but the stingray is gonna go where you thread your belt through it. It gives it a little bit wider platform kinda more stable but it’s curved to fit your body as well. And there’s an adjustable belt for what would you call it like a blocking bar or something for different belt sizes? So if you have an inch and a half belt you can put the bar up there where it don’t rock back and forth on your belt.


So those mach series holsters are outside the waist obviously, but they’re, made for duty and range use. They’re not a holster that you’re gonna even attempt to conceal with. That’s not what they’re made for. We generally started them, you see a lot of guys with drop legs stuff like that. Guys running safari land stuff. All the different safari lane attachments will fit on there so it gives them a holster where safari land, there’s nothing wrong with safari land but they’re super hard to get and stay stocked. Because they do so many military contracts, police contracts, so that’s why we don’t personally have the safari land in stock. Just because I don’t want to carry it and then have to be out of stock for however long. So that’s why we just do the blade techs but we sell a lot of these holsters the people that are gonna put it on Safari Land and that’s completely fine.


We just wanted them to have a holster that they could use and they can buy those with no attachments. Just a blank holster and I would say probably half of them we sell are blank with just the holes because they’re they’ve already got a battle belt set up or something where they just wanna switch guns and holsters. On their one belt that’s already set up which is the way you should do it. So if they’ve already got one started, that’s normally what they do and you talk about like battle belts and chest rigs and stuff like that this blade tech or the tech lock will actually fit on Molle Webbing we tried it out. It ulti clips on nice so if you’ve got a test rig that’d be a good option for that we’ve got a pack we’re gonna review here in a little bit and we’ll talk about how that worked out. But that’s a good option for people who are wanting the Molle attachments. We’ve also got and we sell paddle outside holsters also which is kind of a different thing but this paddle attachment will fit on the mach series as well as, our standard paddle holsters. Yeah regular paddle holster right here. So the difference of the paddle holsters it doesn’t have that extra screw retention over here which it just makes it more streamlined.


Generally I would say the paddle holsters still aren’t made to conceal because you can see how a paddle no matter what you do kind of offset your body. Some people try to do it. It’s not just not what it’s designed for, but this would be more concealable than a mach series holster because you don’t have the extra width and stuff like that. The main thing about the paddle holsters on either one of them is people get the paddle so that they can if you’re having an environment where you gotta take off your gun or something, you have to undo your belt to get one of the belt loop holsters off. Whereas this you can pop off and on different things like that. And it is a nice wide platform to give you more stability and reduce the rock back and forth on the firearm as well. Yeah and the question get a lot too is people wanna know and you can do it either way if the paddle has to go completely down in your pants or just over your belt. It can go either way I personally would rather have it just over my belt. That’s how I always do that there just because I don’t like all that plastic against my skin there or when it’s against your jeans or pants it doesn’t you don’t notice it as much.


You did a YouTube video on that didn’t you? I can’t even remember all the YouTube videos I’ve done but probably. And the nice thing about that paddle too is the way the hole preps are drilled for it, it’s got adjustable cant as well so you can put it at that fifteen degrees if you wanted to Yep. Where the tek loks and the sting rays are gonna be just set and you can mount on the way our mach series are set up you can mount them horizontally or vertically. So if you wanna draw it wouldn’t even be crossed off from a test rig but it’d be pulling out at like an angle and then the other loops that will come on the outside we kind of brushed over them.


So we need to get back real quick. Our concealment loops. And can you talk about a little bit about these two loops Kevin Yeah so we’ve always had the standard loops which is what you see on that holster right there. They didn’t work as well on our old style because it didn’t have that wedge built into it that we were talking about earlier towards the top. So that’s why we always use flat loops on our old ones. Now I personally think those standard loops work better in my opinion it keeps it a smaller footprint. And still pulls it to your body. But that’s the reason we have both. I would say people that really want the other ones or people that just got used to our first holsters and that’s just what they’re accustomed to which is fine. So now on all the new ones we send you both clips, those concealment loops those flat ones he has in his hand, only go up to inch and a half belt. So if you got any belt bigger than that it will not whereas those standard loops, they’re tapered so they’ll fit inch and a half to two inch. So the way they’re tapered at inch and a half it still doesn’t rock because it tapers it down. That makes sense and like you were alluding to a lot of people use these because instead of having to engineer holster they can make a flat holster that’s ambidextrous for lack of a better term. I mean they’ll have dual sweat shields or no sweat shield at all But it gets them away from putting the angles into it which makes them easier to cut less engineering. Well you still got the same top heaviness problem no matter what unless you put wedges in there somehow or like we have by engineering those. So it kinda just depends on what you like I just personally like the smaller footprint of having the standard loops behind the holster. Yeah I totally agree.


Brett what are your thoughts on them what do you like? What do you don’t like? So I sell on the gunshot majority the outside the waistband like on the bell for it to see what like Kevin was alluded to. Probably the paddle holster the most ironically for like range days walking through the woods stuff like that. They’re not usually, like I try to tell them that they’re not easy to conceal I mean most outside officers you gotta have a jacket, sweatshirt some you know scenario like that. They are definitely the most comfortable I mean that’s the way I go. I got a belly I mean let’s be honest. Inside the waistband’s a foreign object in my waist so I like to go outside the waistband. I’m gonna I probably do the belt holster the most.


Yeah and like I said mine I prefer the tek lok just because it clips on the belt. It’s easy to come on and off I don’t have to take off my belt to do it When you’re carrying Kevin what are you carrying When I do carry outside it’s normally like at the farm or something. Any of them are fine but I like the belt loops I just like it. You never have to worry about it secure or rocking or anything else. It’s just very tight to your body like you almost forget it’s even there. So like we’re up in farm country per se in ag ground and stuff and if you’re climbing around on a tractor or working on something it’s just it’s not rocking or you’re not worried about hitting it on something It’s just closer to your body. It helps with concealment but also in my opinion helps with the security of it. Whereas a paddle holster offsets so it’s automatically less secure more likely to hit something. It’s just what you’re used to but a lot of people like Brett said we sell a lot of paddle holsters around here because a lot of people are taking them say mushroom hunting or whatever coming in the spring or just want to quickly put it on go walk through the woods or go around the farm or at the shooting range just something quick where they’re not undoing their belt to switch between guns. Yep


Now as far as these go the carry position is that almost always three o’clock where they’re carrying outside? Generally speaking yes I would say yes on all of them except for sometimes the regular outside the waste ones with loops on them. People will sometimes carry right behind the hip but generally speaking three o’clock is the most common and that’s why we put adjustable cant into them just because you never know people have all different circumstances, but most often people don’t use a cant angle on them at three o’clock. The only time cant really comes in is if you’re trying to carry it like four or five o’clock which is not near as common with outside the waistband. So people who are new to outside the waistband holsters is there anything they need to know or is it a pretty entry level pretty easy transition for them? I think it’s just like we talked about in the last episode inside the waste isn’t for everybody, but don’t think there’s no holster on the market whether it’s ours or anybody else’s that’s gonna make an outside conceal like an inside the waistband holster. It’s just not possible.


So any company that’s trying to tell you they got an outside the waistband holster that conceals as well as an inside holster. It’s just physically not possible. They’re selling you a bill of goods so to speak on that. So just keep that in mind. Not saying you can’t do it but what gun you carry and things like that make a huge difference. And the thing I would say just from an engineering standpoint is ours are designed to be worn left handed or right handed. We have different molds for both. You see people making them that are supposed to be ambidextrous, but we went away from that because we’ve got our dual wedges built into them We’ve got our sweat shields everything that goes into them makes them more comfortable so just remember that if somebody’s selling you something that’s designed to be ambidextrous, there’s gotta be a give and a take. Yeah It’s gotta make it more bulky I mean just like we talked about they’re not as concealable because they’re outside your waist band to begin with. And then you know they’re a little bit more bulky than an inside holster. So I mean there’s a lot of things that go into it but then if you add somebody trying to make it good for both. It’s making it more bulky on top of that already and they’re get really long clips to try and make it back to your belt to hold it somewhat secure and form fitting as well. Yeah I mean they’re just no good way to do it.


So outside the waistband carries great think a lot of people utilize it in the fall and winter months which I do as well I think that’s a great thing. But if you’re walking around in shorts and a t shirt, you probably need to reconsider. Probably not for Palm Beach is what you’re saying? Yeah I mean they’re just not a good way to do it unless you wear a shirt that’s two times the size you need. There’s no good way to do it in the atmosphere. No That makes a lot of sense.


Do you guys have anything else on outside the waistband holsters before we move on? I don’t believe so I think that’s pretty much the gist of it. But as always if you guys have questions email us at [email protected]. We’re always there or leave in the comments other questions and we can bring them up on other podcasts or I can even do some YouTube videos on individual subjects on that holster. If you guys are interested in anything like that just let us know.


I have a little technical question for you Kevin. Is the outside holster the same thickness as your inside holster? Yes. Yep It’s all 80 kydex. Perfect. Alright So, again we are not sponsored by anybody but as we get different tactical gear in we try stuff out we’d like to let people know and maybe save you some money or maybe turn you on to something good. The pack I’m holding here is an Eberlestock recon pack and it’s for binoculars. I use it right now this time of year out shed hunting. It saves me probably miles of walking every time because you guys know how it is. You get in the woods and every stick looks like an antler I saw one I thought I’d found an eighty inch antler side down at the farm I mean because it was all pomated out and everything and even through the binoculars it looked like it I was like man I hit the jackpot and I get over there and it’s the cedar tree that have been knocked down and covered up by limbs and or you know leaves and everything.


But I got this eberlestock basically to carry the binoculars around wanted something where my binoculars weren’t banging off my chest all the time. And overall I’m really happy with the pack. It’s got a nice soft feel to it. it’s got straps. The straps are completely removable. There’s four clips that hold the straps on. Really nice. A lot of adjustability and they’ve got these molle loops on the back plate where you can put like a first aid kit or something if you want to. I don’t have anything on there right now. And then they’ve got these little wings on the side where you can attach other packs and just for Brett, Brett talks about he likes to carry his snacks. So on mine I added a little range binder pouch. You got a little debbie pouch, you got the nutter butter so I I’ve brought you some. Thank you I’m giving you some nutter butter. So you’re not getting that back now. We’ll lose him the rest of the show if you hear crunching in the microphone. So Eberleestock you can market that as a nutter butter pack if you want and send Brett one so he’s got one for his journeys.


But overall it’s a really nice pack I got an initial question just by looking at it I haven’t even touched that thing. The side panels don’t look tough enough to hold anything No and when we get into the stuff I didn’t like, and you can kinda show them on there. The side panels are too small in my opinion. They would have done a lot better to be a little bit bigger and put some backbone in them because like I showed you guys I had my Mach series holster and it clips onto their molle loops there, but the thing tilts out and rocks it’s not secure at all. They do sell an insert that’ll go in the bottom of the pack It’s like a moly plate and they’ve got hand warmers they’ve got bear spray. They’re about eight or ten different attachments for this thing but with the Velcro peels apart down there they’ve got different inserts that will sandwich in there and go back together. Yeah that molle plate may be a little bit stiffer, but for me I didn’t spend the money on it just because there’s nothing holding it in place. So every step you’d take that whole panel would theoretically rocking and out. So that’s why just for this weekend I tried putting a holster on there and it did work but it was angled out kind of top heavy away from the body. I walked with it for probably four or five miles like that. So it wasn’t not doable, but I just feel like if they redo this pack or re engineer it if they put some more rigidity and a little bit bigger flaps on the side.


And I will tell you there are two sizes of this recon pack. This is the large. Yeah my binoculars are ten by forty twos and they fit in there. Perfect. They held the binoculars really nice. There’s no bounce. They’ve got the bungee straps in there as well. So all in all it was a pretty nice pack. It’s got a storage pocket on the front some more storage pockets on the side. So if you’re looking for something lightweight, not real hot it’s a pretty good little pack It runs about a hundred and twenty bucks. I think just depending on where you get it I think I got that off Amazon.


But they make a whole lot of other outdoor packs and maybe we can get some of those in the future and try them out Well and that showing that right there is a prime example of we talked about the chest rigs last week. That’s a prime example of why it’s so hard is it’s the way they did that is because they’re doing it for comfort and not so much worried about everything else you’re carrying. Whereas if we did a harness just like that even though it’s comfortable for that, you put the weight of a gun hanging right there you’re gonna get all the top heaviness of like we talked about the outside holster. So that that’s a prime example of like, I know why they did that but then it’s a downfall in other ways. And you know to their defense that side panel is probably not meant for mounting a firearm on or the weight of it It’s probably meant for Brett’s small little nutter butter case or you know the range finder or something that’s not gonna weigh a ton. That’s not a big enough snack bag for Brett. Definitely not lying. Well he can get that Molle plate underneath it and have a whole like grenade holster full of them. I wear a whole backpack for my snack cakes. Well then what do you wash them down with diet coke or what’s your go to drink? Dr Pepper. The worst drink on the planet. So full Dr Pepper. Twenty three flavors baby. Like the Colonel bring the herbs and spices. He wonders why you may or may not be diabetic. There’s no may or may not. We’re probably fully there now. We’re gonna have a medical professional calling on Brett.


So yeah that that that was our general thoughts on the Eberlestock pack you know I’ll update you guys as we use a little bit more and you know like I said hopefully we can try some other packs. I’ve got a tenzing pack Is that how you say it? Don’t ask me I don’t know. There’s so many on the market that I’ve got one I know what you’re talking about but I can barely read it right. Oh yeah So I’m gonna skip that. So sorry to the manufacture of that fine pack. That one’s actually a nice one It goes over the and it’s like a reverse fanny pack. So you’re carrying everything, you know across your lower back and then it buckles up front. Which I use all the time out bow hunting. So that’s kind of my go to hunting pack and we’ll bring that in and talk about another day. Well if we had an engineer on staff he’d probably be able to make one of these chest rig, whoa probably your hard harnesses but, we’re working on it. I don’t think we work because he was asking permission last week It sounded like yeah sure. Yeah he’s asking me if are we gonna design something like that. Oh my god I don’t know where in this kinda like when Brett says something about the gun shop I’m like we? Do you really wanna turn me loose on my own designs or would you rather have a little bit of guidance to the madness? Yeah Better babysit. Yeah probably a solid idea. We still gotta get them sidecar things rolling. Hey did he tell them how good they fit? Did anybody mention any names on that by the way? No Nobody has mentioned a name on the side cars.


But we do have the best listeners on Earth that prove my point. So somebody wanted to prove Brett wrong and we were talking about that cows  kill more people than sharks. Well Kyle Tyson who we all know Kyle. He shoots me a message this weekend. He’s dude I hope I’m not too late but I looked it up on Google. He’s like I couldn’t believe it but you were right about the cow. So I was like no really. So he tells me that sharks kill five people a year. Horses kill twenty people a year. Cows kill twenty two and this is worldwide not just North America. Crocodiles eat a thousand people a year. Now that’s that’s a ton of people getting eaten like Captain Hook out there. Like I wouldn’t have guessed a thousand people, but beer kill hundreds of people in auto accidents and I bet it’s more than hundreds. It’s gotta be when you get thousands of people I don’t know how many kills but it definitely damages some cars for sure. But according to Kyle the most deadly animal is gonna be mosquitoes. And they kill hundreds of thousands I can believe that’s through malaria and stuff like that. Especially worldwide. Yeah. So I gotta say the shark thing can’t be real accurate. Bahamas alone we’re at like three right now. I mean which Bahamas is kind of a joke because we’re all going to the Bahamas. When is it August Yeah August. So well and remember our wives had that off coast swim that they’d all scheduled together while we were going fishing. Yeah They said they wanted to go swimming like three or four miles out open water the sharks and we told them not to you but they all wanna undo it so yeah more power to them.


So when Kyle started telling me this I went and the most recent was from twenty sixteen and mosquitoes are number one with a bullet according to this study and they say seven hundred and eighty thousand people a year died in mosquito related deaths. So whether I don’t know typhoid fever whatever you know horrible disease you get from mosquitoes. Then snakes are next Seventy five thousand people die from snakes. I’m surprised ticks aren’t on the list somewhere with all the lime disease and too soon too soon. So you got sand flies at fourteen thousand, dogs kill thirteen thousand people a year which fresh water snails and they’ve got some I’m not even gonna try and say whatever this disease you get from fresh water snails is but they’re at ten thousand. Kissing bugs. They got another chagas disease maybe, seven thousand people. some sort of roundworm they kill five thousand people. Scorpions are at thirty five hundred. The CC fly spelled t s e t s e and it gives you piping us I’m my necessary so good, good thing. He’s better at engineering than he is I’m not a medical doctor Yeah.

So hey you wanna try that word for four hundred. Nope I’m out. Alright. So yeah that fly kills two thousand three hundred. Again crocodiles thousand, tapeworms only a thousand that tapeworms are really slacking compared to roundworms but Tippo’s five hundred elephants, a hundred lions, bees a hundred sixty. I figured more people were allergic to bees than sixty.


Now that you’ve mentioned bees I gotta tell you guys a story just because you guys will appreciate it. So remember on what was it two episodes as bragging that we finally got rid of all these farm animals. Yeah with the pig. We got more chickens this weekend. For what reason I’m not sure for eggs or do you eat them? Or yes. No I wouldn’t eat them but she ain’t gonna let me eat them but eggs. So I’m like okay whatever. Last night, she’s working. She sends me a text. Are we doing anything next Saturday? I’m like, I always say yes. I’m like I have no idea and it’s our weekend off so I figured oh we got some wine walking event or something to go to or who knows. That’s probably that dance class they all booked us for. I’m so don’t bring that up because they’ll get us going. Oh yeah The Brett and Tabby are going to dance class. The one place that went out of business over there Right?


But anyways, she calls me last night. It was at like nine o’clock. I’m like what? You never know what gonna come out of her mouth. She’s like and she goes what are we doing next weekend I’m like I have no idea. So I’m waiting for whatever she’s like okay well I think me and my dad are gonna go to a beekeeping class. I’m like, what? She’s like I just wanna have one hive to get some honey. Like you do know they’re selling honey up there for like five dollars a thing and we couldn’t eat it all in a year? Why are we gonna buy beehive? So how long does it take for a beehive to get populated?  I’m not even asking questions because then I’ll be involved. Oh you’re gonna be involved. You’re gonna be the guy out there with the hat and the fogger thing and doing all that. That’s why he’s involved so I just need to know because we’re gonna bring lawn chairs in the case of beer and watch him do the bees. Yeah where’s this bee hive gonna placed I don’t think she’s figured that part out I’d say far away from the house. Do you think she’s figured that part out? No. No. That’s your problem. She’ll come home with a beehive next weekend I’m sure and then I’ll have to go try to screw this beehive to something somewhere and welcome to my world.


Yeah Well I saw an ad for one the other day and it’s like you don’t even have to open the beehive. They make them like out of plastic down like you slide them and it like, They don’t build the combs it’s like plastic combs that they naturally put their honey in I should have known. Well here I’ll pull it up and see if it’s one of the first things that pop up. So she doesn’t have Facebook but she’ll get on mine sometimes. So I hardly ever get on Facebook other than the business stuff I pulled it up last night. Before she called this is like five or six o’clock and there’s a whole bunch of ads for bees. I’m thinking what the like that’s weird. You know how your phone’s always listening and all that crap No Stop. That whole time she’s at work before she called she’s been I probably have bees on there now Yeah She’s been searching for bees,so my Facebook has nothing but like you can buy bees here and I’m like, We have honey since when we moved in the house. We have eight what are we gonna do with that. You’re gonna have a run side stand.


Or hey I know there’s this really good spot of property on ninety two Highway where we could put a little stand in the parking lot Fritz boss is gonna make him sell it out of the gun shop. You can sell that on Sundays. No Shit You’ll have people from slopping shop. Oh no guaranteed you’ll have people from slopping shop coming to the gun shop to pick it up from Brett. In about six months you can look for muddy river hunting at the Muddy River gun shop. Nope I’m out I’m not doing it. Gonna end up like that kid on the McCully call can we be getting stung to death by bees out there? Yeah. Well the bad part is I’ll forget I’m not used to having bees around I’ll forget you’ll ride the side by side from it and on the next episode I’ll be blown up like a beach ball. They’re gonna go to the wrong class and you’re gonna have ground hornets instead of these. Those things ain’t no joke. We had those in our house when we lived down by you. Remember it’s like Jordan’s early birthday party? Oh, yeah This thing’s came out of nowhere. It’s like Tommy Boy out there running around I had yellow jack it’s chasing me and my golden retriever in Texas. Oh we got into the house remember we put gas down in the hole and lit it. The hole came out all the way on the other side of the yard. You should them coming out the other side and it just pissed them off even worse. It made it worse. So I thought it was gonna kill them. It didn’t kill them.


Speaking of those remember before you at the farm? We were up there weed eating around the pond that day and for well I’m up there and you know Kevin’s got the rights to hunt up there at the time and I’m just trying to help out where maybe I can go hunt once in a while. Right So he’s like well I need to mow come help me mow. So we’re up there mowing and you know he’s on the tractor and I’m on this shitty little rider and you know riding around. Well we get over by the pond and he’s like that pond damn there needs weed eat it. So I’m like alright and it’s ninety eight degrees out and I’m not gonna say where Kevin’s house is but it’s thirty five minutes from the nearest hospital. Probably? Roughly? So we’re out there and I’ve been stung by bees about four times in my life. Nothing bad happen but whatever. So ninety eight degrees I’m out there running a weed eater and I’m in jeans and you know my muck boots and everything and walking along the edges pawn bank and Kevin’s driving by on the tractor with brush hog gallon and all of a sudden I walk in and I like step and my foot goes down about two feet like right on the edge of the pond. And I’m like, the grass is up to my waist I’m like stepping out and I don’t think anything I go back to weed eating and here comes Kevin by on the tractor and as he’s coming by, like right on my elbow bone it feels like a rock got shot out of the brush hook like hard enough to drop the weed eater I’m like damn it I’m like looking down. Well looking there’s a ground hornet going like right on my elbow like in the same spot I’m like what the hell I looked down and my boots are covered in these things I had like stepped out into a nasty couple. He looked like Jesus. Oh I got some water to come down like this fat boy you haven’t seen him run like that in years. I’m booking it across the field and he’s like laughing on a tractor. And he wouldn’t even go get the weed eater The weed eater’s still running. Yeah and like from fifteen feet away you see a hundred of these things I’m like nope That’s your weed eater it can live there. So I’m sitting there and I’m like this one hornet it’s done me probably twenty times in the same spot. He’s right about it Oh. Well I’m like well if I’m gonna die from a bee sting it’s gonna be here because it’s too late at this point in time. And I’m telling you for two months that thing would hurt at random in that one spot telling whether it’s like residual venom like working its way up but that’s my ground hornet story.


Well that did I didn’t see what it was I turned just in time to see the weed eater flying and him running I’m like I don’t even have any I don’t think about these down there I thought he’d seen a snake or something on the edge of them. No That’s what that would’ve been me. Oh I would have been spider oh snakes are just as bad. Yeah I don’t know how many there were but there were thousands. Like they were covered. You couldn’t hardly even see my boots or so many of those damn things everywhere. So, yeah, no more of that when well hell you got rattlesnakes up there too on what rattlesnake ridge I’ve never seen one but they always say they’re around there but knock on wood I haven’t seen one and don’t care to. Yeah.


So our last few animals are tigers at fifty, Jellyfish kill forty people, Wolf kill ten and sharks are at four. So, you’re pretty safe not getting eaten by a shark. Yeah Probably gonna be a mosquito where the ground hornet will get you. So the girls swim trip is still on then? Yeah Well and I told them not to eat steak before they go but they’ve insisted they want to hand feed them too. So can Tabby still eat meat? She’s back getting back there. She is. Yep We’re at the house Mike was there. This was two weeks ago three weeks ago. Yeah I forget get now. Eating deer and Tabby can’t because she got bit by that tick at the farm. And ever since then she’s been oh she got that meat disease? Yeah Lyme disease. Something they don’t know what it is. It talking about how far we are from the hospital. I was giving her crap about not eating meat and then she sat there and I felt bad because that’s like all we had. You wanna wait for it. You gotta have a biscuit or I don’t know a piece of toast? To be fair, I asked her to get whatever she wanted before we got here. So she’s sitting there. Finally she just gave in and said screw it. Gonna eat it and automatically I’m like, can I sign a no liability clause here? You’re sitting at my my table here.


Well and you gotta be careful on that lyme disease because remember Deuce’s daughter, she had it and like, it was so hard for her to get diagnosed because there’s like a ton of strains of lyme disease. And I don’t think they know and they only test like if you go to the hospital they’ll test it for like it’s like ten or twenty of them. Yeah and like this girl ended up testing negative for all of them, and like kept getting sicker and they couldn’t figure it out and they paid, and I don’t wanna speak out of term but I think they went to like some holistic type doctor. And they’re like this doctor’s like a guarantee it’s lyme disease. Four hundred or whatever the number is and they ran the entire panel and it cost them like five hundred bucks out of their pocket but it was one of these gear ones where the CDC says you had to worry about like these twenty but it was this one that nobody ever gets at this girl ended up having. So something think about. Absolutely.


Where it takes spray when you’re out in the woods? She’s she attracts them all. Yeah I mean we were both on the four wheeler. Well there’s like twenty of us out there. She’s the only one that got. She got had six of them stuck to her back. And I had nothing I was like well I guess they like you. Well and they got that old farmer’s remedy. Remember Mike Carr was always talking about how was it this grandpa that took like the table like a capful of sulfur and like put it in water. There’s all sorts of old wives tables on that but well I know like uncle Efton would take like a teaspoon of honey and a teaspoon of vinegar every morning. Maybe that’s what you do with your bees. Have the honey and vinegar shop. She’s trying to help you out with the ticks. You know what she’s like oh we can put it in the front field. Well that’s right where shoot guns for all these videos. So on my next YouTube video you’re gonna see me running like Jesus across. No I don’t need, I don’t need them in my front yard so we’re good. Right next to the snakes and everything else. Yeah.


Alright guys well is there anything else we wanna talk about this week while we’re here no just to give an update on the sidecar holster. We talked about last time about putting the different parts on them. We finally got our big blanket order confirmed on one of the parts that we need for those. They’re about three or four weeks out. To start getting in the bulk we need. So I would say your side will probably be done by then. We’re gonna try to have, we’re not gonna release every gun in them. It’s gonna be probably ten or fifteen to start and we’ll add as we go. But here in about three or four weeks the whatever we end up calling them the sidecar style holsters.


Which we need your input people so this is like we will send you a free holster if we’re making one for what you know you like. We’ll send you a whole pack of stuff if you come up with a good name. Yeah and not something somebody else has got you know so make it cool you know something western, something tactical, something cool. We’re really pretty open to suggestions. We’ve put all of our time in on making the product work like it should over the last oh over a year of trying to figure it out and we finally got it how we want it. So if you guys come up with something, great. We’ll send you a holster, hat, whatever.


So what guns do you foresee doing initially? I know we’d talk about the legion. We’ve got that one ready. The MC9, maybe a reflex. Yeah probably what we’ll probably do is just go off of our ten most popular pistols that we sell mostly inside holsters for. Three sixty five AXG will be on there for sure. The X macro, glock nineteen because you could never not do a glock nineteen for that style stuff. Glock 43x, canik MC9. Masada slim maybe? Well I wish they’d let those guns go I wish we could order some of them. Yeah The Masada slim’s a great gun and not to get on a rant about that but they’re hard to get and I don’t I don’t know what’s going on there. So the popularity of that is probably gonna be in the second round of stuff I know it hits the first round of things but we’ll have ten or fifteen. The other one I see it released the other one I see a lots that Beretta 80x cheetah that’s coming through It seems like we sell a lot of those. Yeah


But I think the sidecar has got a separate or not a separate a little bit different market because most of the guys that are side cars are guys that train a lot. It’s very seldom just a casual concealed carry guy. So I think we’re gonna see that dictate some of it as well I also think you’re gonna see bigger sized guns on side cars. Really Yeah. I think you’re gonna be at that macro, in nineteen, hellcat Pro. I think you’re gonna be at that size. I mean Echelon I mean it’s a huge gun but people are gonna do it. That is cool. Yeah I’m looking forward and we’ll make you know we’ll try and make them all eventually but yeah. What we don’t want is we don’t want to release them and we already know they’re gonna be super popular. And have a four week lead time on that one holster because we’re trying to make the molds for them all that fast And we wanna ensure stays with the quality. So every time we release a new gun we gotta go through the testing that we did on every other one.


And you know a little behind the curtains it’s opening up a whole another production line. So we’ve got our inside production line or outside production lines now we’re gonna have a sidecar production line so you know staffing concerns and you know, efficiencies and things like that. Absolutely. Yeah It’s a different dynamic. I’m excited about it. It’s a group of the market that we never really had to hold of or tapped into. There’s been some other companies that have kinda held that section of the market because that’s more or less all they do. Whereas, you know I think we’ve outdone them for sure in my opinion. So now it just makes people not have to look somewhere else. And it’ll come standard with the magazine attachment or yeah magazine sidecar obviously being sidecar holster. But and you can wear it separately or whatever but it comes together with that it’s gonna be hinged in a cool way.


So a lot of adjustability on it as well. Right tons of adjustability. I mean you can, there’s gonna be five holes on the clips so you can, you’re gonna have probably three inches you can move it up and down on either side. That was one of the concerns that you know I’ve been showing a lot of customers and some of the customers one of them was you know the adjustability but the version we have showing right now doesn’t have that adjustability so that’s part of it yeah. So we use the regular tuckable clips on it. On that one that you’re talking about just for the general idea for the what I would consider normal ride height stuff. But the production clips are gonna be on here still a tuckable clip but they’re longer where they got more adjustment now. That’ll make guys happy. Yeah and like you said two screws that magazine comes off and then you can put another second clip on there have two clips they have the claws building. We engineered a cool way to get the claw in there too. Claws are built in on every single one of them. It’s not gonna be an add on like some of the other companies. Because I mean a appendix holster in that configuration without a claw is useless. So we’re not gonna it’s just part of the holster. It’s not add on. It’s engineered into how it works and the mag carrier’s got the adjustable, retention plate in there so you can tighten up your mag or loosen it up and adjustable retention on the holster side as well. So everything pretty much customizable to what they want.


There’s nothing you can’t adjust on that holster. And being hinged like that you know if you do wanna take it apart you don’t have to have a master’s degree in basket weaving to try and rig paracord or bungee or whatever material back together. Yeah and you don’t have to listen to your kydex scraping on top of each other when they’re bungee corded together. That was weirdest thing when we were doing our testing and prototyping. You put those on and you know I know that’s how a lot of people make them but you sit weird and you get twist like this or this or overlap or rubbing. We know why because just to not to get too deep into it but the hinge we use is seven or eight dollars per hinge at bulk pricing. So if you just go buy one hinge it’s a twenty or twenty five dollar hinge whereas paracord, anybody can buy it and have twenty five cents a paracord to hold it together and I know we talked about it but it is where the value really comes into ours. They’re gonna be competitive price with everybody else but you’re getting you know the hinge which is expensive for getting these extra clips you’re getting a claw. You’re getting the adjustable mag plate, you’re getting a ton of upgrades. But we’re just giving you as part of the standard deal because that’s what’s right and that’s what makes it a muddy river holster.


Well that and I mean that one like you can consider inside the waistband holster as like an inside Kydex as a entry level holster because people do all sorts of things with them. This is more of a dedicated use holster. It’s not a carrying that way is not an entry level way to carry. So it’s way more advanced than what those are and that’s why I asked about the adjustable clips because that’s what my customers were telling me that it took them two weeks sometimes to get these adjusted out and once you get it adjusted, they’re phenomenal, but it does take some tinkering to get them you know this way you like it to pick your body. Like I said it’s the right height mainly. Everybody is gonna be different but you don’t want it in the pinch point of your legs. It’s gotta be high enough where it’s riding with your torso to some extent unless it’s just pinching on itself and it’s never gonna be comfortable.


Yeah I really look forward to getting these out and they can check it out on our all of our socials We’re gonna be talking about it on here we’ll have and the week they release will be the week that we have the in-depth podcast on it as well which will be part of the release and initially, these we’re not gonna offer as wide of a variety of colors on these. They’re gonna be more of your standard flat colors carbon fibers especially prints we’re not doing right away on those Right away we’re not just because it’s the specialty prints are great but the way these are together and it’s two pieces that are hinged together trying to make them look right and make the pattern line up at that point. Is really hard. So I think it just it doesn’t look as good because you may get half a pattern here and then the other path start there where it looks like it’s dead ended. It’s definitely something somebody would never think about unless you do this every day and most companies wouldn’t even think about it. They’ll go oh that’s just how it is but when somebody’s gonna spend that kind of money on a holster I don’t think that’s doing the meaning justice. Yeah and if it’s not something we’d wanna carry or feel good about showing up. Again it’s like Brett’s always talks about you know that’s a muddy river holster and the pattern’s not lining up It’s not a muddy river holster. Absolutely.


Speaking of which use promo code MRT Muddy River Tactical MRT podcast for fifteen percent off the website. Not gonna be guns, worked in a gun shop as well. So you can get holsters, hoodies, hats ,goodies, not off gift cards gift cards are standard price. But anything we have on there use promo code MRT for fifteen or MRT podcast for fifteen percent off. You can follow us on all of the major socials whether that be you know whatever they are. We won’t name them here but you can find us on there. Just look at my for tactical. Kevin’s got weekly gun review videos, same platform where you can get this podcast as well. So just check us out if you can just like us, subscribe to us it helps us out greatly. Even if you can’t watch every episode just give us subscribe check us out when you can watch as much of it as you can and let us know what we can do better. Other than that Quinton Cox does our music for us. Does a real good job. He’s got shows coming up all over here so if you’re local to the Kansas City area check them out. I don’t wanna say exactly when he shows I know he posts all the time on his. They’re always changing on his social media. Yeah if you look them up you can find them all. Perfect. Well you wanna wrap us up Kevin. Yep Thank you guys for joining us and keep practicing and always be prepared. Thank you everybody.




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